The Valiant: The Redshirt of Starships?

[Emperor Norton]

It has dawned on me that any ship named Valiant is bound to die somehow. The SS Valiant was destroyed by the esper insanity of the Galactic Barrier. The USS Valiant was killed by first contact with the people of Eminiar VII in 2217. The production list of Constitution class ships on TOS included a USS Valiant on the final list of 14 ships, which seems to indicate that ship was lost prior to 2267. The Defiant class USS Valiant was destroyed by the Jem'Hadar in the 24th century, while under the command of dumb space cadets. And last we left off in Star Trek: Nemesis, there was a new USS Valiant which assuredly would have gone kaboom if given enough time.

 

[USS Triumphant]

For some reason, when someone or something seems *too* Good or Noble, a lot of people want to see them/it taken down a peg. If something declares itself "Valiant", they want to see it burn.

 

[Emperor Norton]

For some reason, when someone or something seems *too* Good or Noble, a lot of people want to see them/it taken down a peg. If something declares itself "Valiant", they want to see it burn.

If I had to theorize, I think it's the merging factors of the Valiant as a name which stands out for excellence as this great ship, and the need to have cannon fodder to show how great the main characters and ship are. The mole that pops up is the one that gets whacked. The Enterprise and Valiant are both names that repeat in Star Trek. But the Valiant is condemned to be this ship which gets blown up because it's so great, and the Enterprise is fated to be the ship that gets saved no matter what because it's so great.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Or, it's some sort of subconscious effort to infiltrate Western minds with the notion that Enterprise (or Capitalism) is superior to being Valiant (brave or Good)? It's a Ferengi plot to conquer us culturally.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Or, it's some sort of subconscious effort to infiltrate Western minds with the notion that Enterprise (or Capitalism) is superior to being Valiant (brave or Good)? It's a Ferengi plot to conquer us culturally.

Everything is a Ferengi plot. I say they've been in cahoots with the Borg since day one, which explains why they're species designation 180.

I think it's a ying and yang thing. The Enterprise has good luck in inverse relationship to the Valiant having bad luck.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I think it's a ying and yang thing. The Enterprise has good luck in inverse relationship to the Valiant having bad luck.

Whut? Enterprise is just as much a cursed name as Valiant. You listed three Valiants that were actually known to be destroyed (Galactic barrier, Eminiar VII, and the Jem'Hadar).

• 1701-Prime had to be scuttled after being rendered inoperative by Klingon attack
• 1701-C was destroyed by Romulans
• 1701-D was half-destroyed and half-crashed after a Klingon attack

And if you count the Kelvin Timeline...

Spoiler: Beyond

Nu-1701-Prime was destroyed by the swarm at Altamid

Space is dangerous! But we only hear about the end of the various Valiants in the shows, rather than all their pre-destruction adventures, because the shows were not about the "voyages of the Starship Valiant"...

 

[Emperor Norton]

Whut? Enterprise is just as much a cursed name as Valiant. You listed three Valiants that were actually known to be destroyed (Galactic barrier, Eminiar VII, and the Jem'Hadar).

• 1701-Prime had to be scuttled after being rendered inoperative by Klingon attack
• 1701-C was destroyed by Romulans
• 1701-D was half-destroyed and half-crashed after a Klingon attack

And if you count the Kelvin Timeline...

Spoiler: Beyond

Nu-1701-Prime was destroyed by the swarm at Altamid

Space is dangerous! But we only hear about the end of the various Valiants in the shows, rather than all their pre-destruction adventures, because the shows were not about the "voyages of the Starship Valiant"...

Each Enterprise had a long and illustrious career, except maybe the C. Enterprises go out in a blaze of glory after a long illustrious career. Valiants just seem to go out in a blaze.

 

[Avro Arrow]

We don't know that. In-universe, the various Valiants could have had incredible careers too before they met their ultimate fate. That's not relevant to the story being told, though, so we don't hear about it.

(And really, neither the 1701-A nor the 1701-D actually had that long of a career anyway.)

 

[USS Firefly]

And the Enterprise-B didn't had a long career either

 

[trekfan39]

And the Enterprise-B didn't had a long career either

Actually the Enterprise-B was in service from 2293 to 2329 so about 36 years.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ But if we're talking strict canon, we actually have no idea how long the Enterprise-B (or C, for that matter) existed.

 

[BillJ]

Actually the Enterprise-B was in service from 2293 to 2329 so about 36 years.

Which would mean the Enterprise-C lasted roughly nine years, if she launched the day the "B" was decommissioned. Which gives three versions of the ship with less than a decade in service (A, C, D).

 

[Devilpogostick]

Oh no, the OP is making me think people in-universe do see any ship with that name as a death sentence.

Graduated Cadet: Oh boy, I finally get to go to space in a Starship!

Captain: Congratulations! You’re being assigned to the USS Valiant!

Cadet: ...Is this because you guys caught me cheating on the Kobayashi Maru?

 

[Emperor Norton]

We don't know that. In-universe, the various Valiants could have had incredible careers too before they met their ultimate fate. That's not relevant to the story being told, though, so we don't hear about it.

(And really, neither the 1701-A nor the 1701-D actually had that long of a career anyway.)

Let me phrase it this way. There are three Enterprise ships that blew up. All of them after an illustrious career, leaving out the possibility of the Enterprise-C. However, only the Enterprise-C was lost with all hands. Every single Valiant was lost with all hands. When the Valiants go down, everyone attached dies with them. There's only one Enterprise where that was the case. Kirk and co survived the NCC-1701 self destruct. Picard and co survived the Enterprise-D crash. And both crews went on to serve on the subsequent ship of the name. And the rest of the Enterprise ships appear to have retired. There is no Valiant that retired peacefully. Every single Valiant has been destroyed, killing her crew with her

 

[Spot261]

I thought the Miranda class were the redshirts of starships?

 

[Devilpogostick]

I thought the Miranda class were the redshirts of starships?

Those and Oberth class starships sure, but the Valiant might be a special case given what we know about ships with that name.

Like say we got a Sovereign class, with top of the line equipment with that name. Chances are that very ship is gonna get blown up with all hands lost...So then the actual ship of the heroes will head out to investigate.

 

[Jedman67]

Not to mention the Enterprise E which was 2 bulkheads and a forcefield away from going 'kaboom' at the end of Nemesis.

 

[Emperor Norton]

I have once again watched "Valiant" while marathoning through DS9. And it reminds me why I fully support everyone on that ship getting killed. Smug little Leyton's Youth wannabes.

 

[Emperor Norton]

It would have to suck to be a redshirt on a Valiant.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Which would mean the Enterprise-C lasted roughly nine years, if she launched the day the "B" was decommissioned. Which gives three versions of the ship with less than a decade in service (A, C, D).

And Enterprise NX-01, retired after exactly a decade in service.