The untimely demise of Mr. Tuvix

[Navaros]

I just saw the Tuvix episode for the first time.

I was shocked by the ending of it. I've read some offhand comments about it and from the impressions I got from those it seemed like a light-hearted episode.

But the ending was extremely creepy!

I can maybe understand Janeway having to make the decision she did.

But, how about letting Mr. Tuvix go with a bit of dignity?

She didn't even state to him what her decision was. Just killed him in cold-blood without even saying she is going to first.

She could have at least verbalized her decision to him. Then said a prayer for him. Or at least offered some words of encouragement to him before she killed him. Or made any kind of show of compassion to him. Anything other than just outright killing him without talking to him first.

That was a really cold-blooded execution she gave him.

I used to think the Sisko's actions in In the Pale Moonlight was the most hardcore thing in Trek, but now I see that nefarious nature of that has been trumped by Janeway's killing of Tuvix.

Am I the only one who found the method of Mr. Tuvix's demise to be extremely disturbing?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I thought it was creepier when she killed the clown. but killing clowns is as socially acceptable as killing Nazis, however I do recall getting uppity when they were killing nazi's in Enterprise...

Janeway made her decision to let things lay. Kes changed her mind. Kes killed Tuvix. then dumped Neelix 2 episodes later. or she just agreed with a dumping which happened while some creepy dude was making her run around in skin tight leather killing people with an innocent smile on her face. if Kes had shut the hell up, or Janeway had ignored her, Tuvix would still be around.

Check out Season 6's Riddles. Tuvok has a mind wipe. He has to start form basics all over again. After a month they figure out how to bring back his original personality. Sound familiar? the current Tuvok doesn't want to commit suicide until Neelix talks him into it with out even briefly in metaphor even mentioning their previous merging as Tuvix. it might have been a coincidence, but in my mind it did seem to say to me that some writer was saying that Janeway had made the right decision in Tuvix by showing that Tuvok and Neelix would both do exactly the same as she did while faced with the same situation.

Damnn good episode.

 

[RainCrystal]

IMO I don't see it as Janeway killing Tuvix in cold blood but getting rid of a mistake to bring back Tuvok and Neelix. Tuvix was a bit of a freak to be honest. Once he told Kes that he loved her as well as Tuvok's wife. Everyone would've accepted Tuvix if they never found a formula to bring the two others back although Kes lost her boyfriend and Janeway lost her friend and officer. The heroic thing on federation is to sacrifice your own life to save others but Tuvix didn't want to. He was being selfish by wanting to stay as he was without caring about the other two, so he basically would've killed Neelix and Tuvok. Once he refused to seperate everyone saw him as an intruder.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That accident said "Please don't kill me."

He also said that Tuvok and Neelix were alive in side him in a real way. notice how the doctor ouldn't do it? the entire episode was a thinly veiled metaphor for abortion.

Imagine a doctor in an Abortion clinic was putting the (You haven't seen any of the Sarah Silverman Program this season?) vaccum into a place and a voice came down through from the dark side of the birth canal... "Please don't kill me."

 

[McCoy]

Guy Gardener said:
Check out Season 6's Riddles. Tuvok has a mind wipe. He has to start form basics all over again. After a month they figure out how to bring back his original personality. Sound familiar? the current Tuvok doesn't want to commit suicide until Neelix talks him into it with out even briefly in metaphor even mentioning their previous merging as Tuvix. it might have been a coincidence, but in my mind it did seem to say to me that some writer was saying that Janeway had made the right decision in Tuvix by showing that Tuvok and Neelix would both do exactly the same as she did while faced with the same situation.

I never thought of that. While I never disagreed with Janeway's decision re: Tuvix, this is a very good point.

 

[RainCrystal]

I never considered that getting rid of Tuvix was like an abortion, but I still think he freaked everyone out after a while.

What if Neelix or Tuvok went through the beam up with a woman? Or what if several different people were merged into one person instead of two during that episode?

What's the Silverman programme btw?

 

[Broccoli]

RainCrystal said:
What's the Silverman programme btw?

A very unfunny show starring "comedian" Sarah Silverman on Comedy Central.

 

[Navaros]

RainCrystal said:
IMO I don't see it as Janeway killing Tuvix in cold blood but getting rid of a mistake to bring back Tuvok and Neelix. Tuvix was a bit of a freak to be honest..

But, being selfish, being a freak, or being an intruder, is not a justifiable reason to kill him. Especially in such a cold, compassion-less way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Really? Compassionless? For all the inhumanity it took her to go through with killing Tuvix, it was not an easy decision which she came to very slowly, and I think it really hurt her going through with murdering while she squashed down her own doubts while she did it. Lady MacBeth, kathy is not.

 

[Kegek]

You thought it was a light-hearted episode? For years it's been considered one of the more troubling moral questions on Voyager's run, I knew that long before I myself saw the episode.

I'm basically on Tuvix's side here. For all intents and purposes, Tuvok and Neelix are dead. Tuvix is the cause of their death, but he is not responsible. I do not consider it morally justified to kill an innocent man to resurrect two dead men.

It's certainly a murky area, though - one of VOY's most thought-provoking episodes.

 

[Navaros]

Kegek`s Corpse said:
You thought it was a light-hearted episode? For years it's been considered one of the more troubling moral questions on Voyager's run, I knew that long before I myself saw the episode.

Most of the mentions I've seen of Tuvix on this site in recent years has been in regards to which other characters should be transmorphed together, and how humorous a thing it is to do that. Not about the shady content of the episode "Tuvix". How come no one discusses that any more?

Why isn't this a common staple of Trek discussions that always come up, like say, In the Pale Moonlight is?

 

[Kegek]

I don't know. During my initial run here early in this decade, back when the VOY forum was understandably more frequented... 'Tuvix' was regularly brought up as an arguing point concerning Janeway's morality.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know how when the old gods know everything and have done everything and think it is time to go out and explore beyond the rim? And the younger races are left alone with out their tutorledge to learn from all their own mistakes?

That's why.

 

[Kegek]

But what about when the old gods return and want to rehash arguments for old time's sake?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yes, I agree, you're looking at him.

 

[Navaros]

The shows are dead, so there is nothing to do except keep rehashing the same things for all eternity. Therefore, might as well go right on ahead take the full plunge with that. :thumbsup:

In my view this Tuvix issue should be at the forefront of Voyager-based discussions just as In the Pale Moonlight is at the forefront of DS9-based discussions. The Tuvix issue seems more important than the other currently popular discussions which are no doubt also rehashes of years past.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Tuvix was such an absurd concept to begin with. If it weren't for Janeway's decision at the end, people would lump this episode in with THRESHOLD (was Janeway morally right to leave her mudpuppy babies to fend for themselves??).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember Kurzon and odo when they intermeshed? Or what if McCoy hadn't "chosen the danger" then Sarek would have marched right down and and dragged McCoy right back to that stone table to suck his sons brains out of the country doctor.

There was an episode of "That's my Bush" where president Bush had to argue with a prochoice advocate who he himself had been aborted, survived and crawled out of the bucket some doctor had flung him in as medical waste.

Imagine if the weponized this process? A hundred Burley soldiers try to attack Janeway and she combines them into 4 composite and mega confused beings? If this got out, I'm sure the Borg would be interested because it is an interesting method of construction collectives which out the use of cybernetics, if they have to explore redundant back up to fall into place when the unthinkable happens.

I think it would have been grand to bump into Tuvix in Shattered.

 

[sevenstars]

Kegek`s Corpse said:

Tuvix is the cause of their death, but he is not responsible...

The orchid's fault. After they were separated again, where was the orchid? That always confused me.

 

[Sisu]

You mean it was all orchidstrated?