The Undiscovered Country...

[Timo]

You'd basically need a transporter in order to infiltrate the secret meeting on the secret island, though. I mean, if an entire warship can beach and send a party ashore to tackle the President, then security is such a joke that we lose a lot of credibility there and then already.

Starships in Trek hold a rather special place in the dramatic scene, very much unlike the ships of today. But go back to the sailing era, when there's no Bell or Marconi yet, and when the personal guard of the King may well be taken by surprise when a handful of men quietly row ashore and climb the walls...

a character with Uhura's history

Where in Uhura's history would we have learned that she speaks Klingon (or any foreign language for that matter) or is an accomplished actor or at ease with the art of lying? That's almost purely the invention of L.A.Graf, although their Uhura admittedly is the 180 degree opposite of the character seen in ST6.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

klingoni*;
*I always presumed this was the correct name (in English) of the language, as mentioned by Michael Pataki in the bar scene in "The Trouble with Tribbles."

Except that although some people assert that Michael Pataki actually said "Klingoni" in "The Trouble with Tribbles", this conflicts with David Gerrold's script and the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

Where in Uhura's history would we have learned that she speaks Klingon (or any foreign language for that matter) or is an accomplished actor or at ease with the art of lying? That's almost purely the invention of L.A.Graf

Hey, LA Graf is hardly the instigator of Uhura being fluent in alien languages. Many non canonical sources, including novels, comics and RPGs, have extrapolated her as a skilled "linguist".

 

[FormerLurker]

klingoni*;
*I always presumed this was the correct name (in English) of the language, as mentioned by Michael Pataki in the bar scene in "The Trouble with Tribbles."

Except that although some people assert that Michael Pataki actually said "Klingoni" in "The Trouble with Tribbles", this conflicts with David Gerrold's script and the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

And if you listen carefully, you'll hear the 's' at the end of his 'Klingonese.'

 

[Mike Have-Not]

klingoni*;
*I always presumed this was the correct name (in English) of the language, as mentioned by Michael Pataki in the bar scene in "The Trouble with Tribbles."

Except that although some people assert that Michael Pataki actually said "Klingoni" in "The Trouble with Tribbles", this conflicts with David Gerrold's script and the Star Trek Encyclopedia.

And if you listen carefully, you'll hear the 's' at the end of his 'Klingonese.'

And I still refer to the language as Klingonese to this day :-D

 

[Tulaberry whine]

The most cringeworthy scene in any trek, in my opinion.

The scene with Valeris firing off a phaser in the galley is much worse for just too many reasons.

And Uhuru and Scotty then rushing in like a pair of nosey old neighbours demanding to know what's going on ... I mean, who came up with this rubbish?

 

[Oso Blanco]

Still, with all her years as a communications officer I think she should've known Klingon. It's kind of silly to think that after twenty years she wouldn't know any Klingon at all.

In XI she even knew all three Romulan dialects ...

TUC has some nice moments, but it has too many plotholes and too many continuity errors.

 

[The Dominion]

It can't have any more plot holes than the TNG movies. And I don't see what the fuss is over one scene where they have communication trouble. If anything, it rectifies the usual complaint of "The universal translator is too unrealistic/doesn't make sense."

 

[TheMurph]

I love TUC, but I don't really care for the Uhura gag. Though Canonically (I hate using that term) it's not said that she should know the Klingon language, it would make sense for a communications officer on a Starship that has faced Klingon's as an adversary for nearly 30 years to know the language. Unless she is just an over glorified switchboard operator.

 

[A Little Otter]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good. IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[cblmc1296]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good. IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

Wow. Just wow.

Interestingly, I've read a number of posts in various threads to that effect. I suppose, like anything else, it's totally a matter of personal taste and extremely difficult to look at completely objectively. All the same, IMHO, ST V felt like it was trying too hard for most of the film and missing the mark a lot. ST VI generally felt much more like the original TV series in terms of how the characters acted and interacted (the Uhura Klingon book gag notwithstanding).

 

[Satyrquaze]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good. IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

Please tell me you were piss drunk or criminally insane when you posted this.

 

[The Dominion]

Can't be serious. Can he?

 

[plynch]

Yes. And he's right. When I rewatched VI, it IS pretentious, but not quite good enough to carry it off. It comes off hokey. The hatred towards Klingons is as out of character as Scotty banging his head, but more ugly and unTrekkish IMO. VI is too militaristic, too.

I agree V is closer in spirit to TOS. It's still not great, but I'd rather watch it than VI. In fact I think I will, now. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Dan_theNerd]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good.

Yes. And he's right. When I rewatched VI, it IS pretentious, but not quite good enough to carry it off. It comes off hokey. The hatred towards Klingons is as out of character as Scotty banging his head, but more ugly and unTrekkish IMO. VI is too militaristic, too.

If anything, Undiscovered Country was supposed to be a little pretentious. It was the end of an era! Kirk and his crew are going out with one last bang before retirement. Were you expecting the Enterprise and her crew to just slip quietly into the night? Wouldn't make for a very good movie, really. But, I'm curious, what exactly did you find made the film too pretentious for you?

IMO, Kirk's somewhat covert racism is completely believable and realistic. He was obviously a man who hadn't fully dealt with the death of his son, and that manifested as an irrational, reserved discrimination against Klingons that slowly festered into a nearly uncontrollable hatred.

And as for the militaristic feel, some of us actually enjoy when that aspect is included in Trek. Cough, cough. Just saying.

IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

My eye twitches when I read this. By and large, V was mostly poop, topped with more poop. There are a few good scenes, such as McCoy's re-experiencing his father's death, but most of it was poorly written and not up to the usual TOS-movie quality.

 

[plynch]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good.

Yes. And he's right. When I rewatched VI, it IS pretentious, but not quite good enough to carry it off. It comes off hokey. The hatred towards Klingons is as out of character as Scotty banging his head, but more ugly and unTrekkish IMO. VI is too militaristic, too.

If anything, Undiscovered Country was supposed to be a little pretentious. It was the end of an era! Kirk and his crew are going out with one last bang before retirement. Were you expecting the Enterprise and her crew to just slip quietly into the night? Wouldn't make for a very good movie, really. But, I'm curious, what exactly did you find made the film too pretentious for you?

IMO, Kirk's somewhat covert racism is completely believable and realistic. He was obviously a man who hadn't fully dealt with the death of his son, and that manifested as an irrational, reserved discrimination against Klingons that slowly festered into a nearly uncontrollable hatred.

And as for the militaristic feel, some of us actually enjoy when that aspect is included in Trek. Cough, cough. Just saying.

IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

My eye twitches when I read this. By and large, V was mostly poop, topped with more poop. There are a few good scenes, such as McCoy's re-experiencing his father's death, but most of it was poorly written and not up to the usual TOS-movie quality.

Chang quoting Shakespeare before a big ka-boom is silly poop. As is bridge officers pretending to have static on their radio communicating with starfleet. I don't care for either one of them much; but fun trumps pretentiousness.

 

[DonIago]

(shrug) I rather got where Chang is coming from. If you know you're going to die anyway, you might as well go out on a good line.

 

[Winterwind]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good. IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

Please tell me you were piss drunk or criminally insane when you posted this.

I'll say the same thing and I'm stone cold sober and certifiably sane... But you and I have gone done this road before.

 

[CoveTom]

My eye twitches when I read this. By and large, V was mostly poop, topped with more poop. There are a few good scenes, such as McCoy's re-experiencing his father's death, but most of it was poorly written and not up to the usual TOS-movie quality.

Hardly. The writing in TFF was far and away superior to the garbage that was a great deal of TUC. Since Nick Meyer had managed to turn out superior writing on both TWOK and TVH, I have to blame Denny Martin Flynn for TUC. Either that or the fact that Harve Bennett was no longer there on TUC to keep Meyer reigned in.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Star Trek VI leaves me cold. It's far too pretentious for it's own good. IMO the much-underrated Star Trek V was far superior. It was fun - just like the original series.

Please tell me you were piss drunk or criminally insane when you posted this.

I'll say the same thing and I'm stone cold sober and certifiably sane... But you and I have gone done this road before.

Yeah, I know you're criminally insane and living in the great state of Denial.

 

[The Dominion]

IMO, Kirk's somewhat covert racism is completely believable and realistic. He was obviously a man who hadn't fully dealt with the death of his son, and that manifested as an irrational, reserved discrimination against Klingons that slowly festered into a nearly uncontrollable hatred.

Yes, it was a very good thing considering the last two movies hardly touched at all on Kirk just losing a newfound son. And if anything, they had him skipping around saving whales and singing row row row your boat. TUC was the logical followup to TSFS, especially in regard to the whole scene of his son getting murdered for no good reason.