The Ultimate Poll: JJ Vs. Bay
- Thread starter Aike
- Start date
This is an ongoing shell game. If you consider the film to be good quality entertainment they'll claim it was a financial disappointment. If you point them to the easily available facts demonstrating its success, they switch to the quality argument.
I prefer to stick with what's quantifiable - the film's commercial success, unparalleled in Trek's history - simply because it makes the contortions of the naysayers a little bit tougher. "It's not high quality" is directly translatable as "I don't like it."
number6
Vice Admiral
Or "They copied Star Wars."
I've never argued the movie wasn't a financial success. But of course it's easier to draw sides and put things in black and white as Dennis is doing in the above.
number6, when I have more time I will make the effort to re-read the thread and your points. I don't see any deeper meaning behind Trek 2009 but I keep an open mind and will read your opinions.
number6, when I have more time I will make the effort to re-read the thread and your points. I don't see any deeper meaning behind Trek 2009 but I keep an open mind and will read your opinions.
number6
Vice Admiral
I don't expect you to keep an open mind. I expect you will still insist that Star Trek copied Star Wars.. People have been saying that since the beginning because JJ Abrams said he was more of a Star Wars fan.
The idea of Kirk's "destiny" is consistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel. The twist is that they do not try to reset the timeline.
The idea of Kirk's "destiny" is consistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel. The twist is that they do not try to reset the timeline.
Vulcan is destroyed in front of Spock's eyes.
Alderaan is destroyed in front of Leia's eyes.
You already said...
number6 said:
So you feel that the destruction of Vulcan in front of Spock more resembles Trek instead of Star Wars, even though the exact same thing happens in Star Wars?
This really just seems like fanboys that refuse any criticism of the movie or any comparison to Star Wars as somehow that's a negative which I'm not sure why.
number6
Vice Admiral
So?? Obi Wan collapses in pain hearing the Adleraan death screams the same way Spock does when the Intrepid is destroyed.
So much for your "open mind."
Yes. Do you think the destruction of Earth in ENT's Xindi arc was copying Star Wars?? How about Vulcan mysticism and its similarity to the Force?? Good vs. Evil is only a plot device that Star Wars used?? Growing up without a father?? Seriously??
First.. I object to you calling me a fanboy.
Second.. comparison and influence are different things.. You choose to ignore not only how much SW was influenced by TOS and how the two have influenced each other over the last 35 years. I don't think the similarities make Trek look more like SW. We're not going to agree on this.
Would everyone be so high on Star Trek 2009 if it didn't have $80-90 million dollars worth of special effects backing it up?
And you're saying that no one in any movie from here on out can destroy a planet while someone watches without it being like Star Wars?
Again, they both are monomyth based stories, no doubt, but that doesn't mean that one "copied" the other. The monomyth is also referred to as "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" because it's a story that is told and retold in thousands of variations.
Again, they both are monomyth based stories, no doubt, but that doesn't mean that one "copied" the other. The monomyth is also referred to as "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" because it's a story that is told and retold in thousands of variations.
number6
Vice Admiral
Who knows.. All I know is that I waiting in the freezing cold on Dec 7th 1979 to see TMP in the theatre and that was my opinion then as it is now. I enjoyed this film more. I think they nailed the characters of younger versions of Kirk and Spock in a way that TMP couldn't accomplish with its creator at the helm. The actual SFX are frankly a given.. All the ST films have had believable SFX work. TMP relied on it too much at the expense of story than the other films did.
No. But when the director acknowledges that he's more a fan of Star Wars and the star says his inspiration for Jim Kirk is Han Solo... then you get this funny feeling deep down inside that they are targeting the audiences of those particular films. YMMV.
Questions about the importance of the effects are red herrings and non-starters - if you spend less money on effects you make a different movie.
It's exactly like asking if everyone would be "so high" on Star Wars if the movie had been produced by Roger Corman for a budget of three million dollars. IOW: no one ever made or saw that movie, so who the fuck cares?
Hey, would anybody be "so high" on ST:TMP if instead of being a long slow movie full of pretty effects it had been a long slow movie full of repurposed effects footage from The Green Slime? Well, the MST3K gang would.
It's exactly like asking if everyone would be "so high" on Star Wars if the movie had been produced by Roger Corman for a budget of three million dollars. IOW: no one ever made or saw that movie, so who the fuck cares?
Hey, would anybody be "so high" on ST:TMP if instead of being a long slow movie full of pretty effects it had been a long slow movie full of repurposed effects footage from The Green Slime? Well, the MST3K gang would.
number6
Vice Admiral
You might get a funny feeling.. But then again JJAbrams didn't write the movie.
I went to the theatre a skeptical Star Trek fan and left having seen a Star Trek movie. Your mileage obviously varies.
Each story features a main hero forced by the main villain to watch as his/her homeworld is destroyed. How is this not extremely similar?
Would you like a partial list of westerns that feature gun fights on the main street of a small town?
number6
Vice Admiral
JJ also got Ben Burtt to do the sound design. This really gets me because I am an audio engineer and I have done a lot of sound design.. Burtt is a hardcore TOS fan as he was when he created the sound design for the 1977 SW film.. So the similarities are there, but then a lot of those sounds were inspired by TOS in the first place!! If you listen close enough, the background sound in Obi Wan's home is the TOS shuttlecraft interior.
It's not a red herring when you're comparing one SFX laden film against another.
Would you like a partial list of westerns that feature gun fights on the main street of a small town?
Would you like to provide a list of films where the hero is forced to watch the destruction of his/her homeworld by the villain?
