The Timeline of Gallifrey at, and since the end of the Time War

[Mr Light]

Not to mention the treatment of the Time Lords is pretty inconsistent in the new series. The Doctor spends the first four seasons wistfully missing his lost people. Then suddenly in "The End of Time" they're just as evil as the Daleks and want to destroy all of reality. Then suddenly in "Day" and "Time" they're sympathetic victims caught up in a terrible war.

 

[The Wormhole]

What ever happened to the Ultimate Sanction? Rassillon was thwarted in TEOT when the link broke and he went back inside the time lock, but after Gallifrey is frozen in TDOTD and returns to the universe from its frozen moment, and they're outside the time lock, the option would still seem to be available. Did they change their minds?

I assumed the Final Sanction was just a last gasp effort for victory in the Time War. Now that there are no more enemies at the gate, and Gallifrey is relatively safe, it may not be a priority anymore. Also, the attempt to enact the Final Sanction resulted in a showdown between Rassilon, the Doctor, and the Master, and all three regenerated afterwards. Maybe the Panopticon rethought their vote?

Not to mention the treatment of the Time Lords is pretty inconsistent in the new series. The Doctor spends the first four seasons wistfully missing his lost people. Then suddenly in "The End of Time" they're just as evil as the Daleks and want to destroy all of reality. Then suddenly in "Day" and "Time" they're sympathetic victims caught up in a terrible war.

TEOT is easy enough to reconcile with how the Doctor talks about them. He's just romanticizing the positive aspects of Time Lord society. And even throughout the first four season we get the occasional hint that the Time Lords weren't perfect, most notably in The Sound of Drums when Captain Jack is talking about the legends of Gallifrey which made it sound perfect and the Doctor responds "perfect to look at maybe."

Day of the Doctor does fudge this up a little where the Doctor is urged to think of the children and suddenly the fact that the Time Lords are led by a genocidal maniac intent on mass destruction is conveniently forgotten.

 

[Mr Light]

I have a lot of problems with "The End of Time", and one of the biggest is the abrupt vilification of the Time Lords. Particularly with the last minute reveal that Dalton was the O.G. Rassilon all along and his muhahaha master plan to erase reality just like Davros wanted to do. It's really my biggest disappointment with the Davies Era.

But once that's established it's just so weird to have the show completely skip over it afterwards. So we meet a non-Dalton Rassilon in "Hell Bent" and nobody's going to even mention he was about to destroy the universe? If that doesn't deserve the death penalty, I don't know what does

 

[The Wormhole]

I have a lot of problems with "The End of Time", and one of the biggest is the abrupt vilification of the Time Lords. Particularly with the last minute reveal that Dalton was the O.G. Rassilon all along and his muhahaha master plan to erase reality just like Davros wanted to do. It's really my biggest disappointment with the Davies Era.

I never thought of vilifying the Time Lords as particularly abrupt, and indeed it is pretty consistent with how they were depicted in the classic era.

So we meet a non-Dalton Rassilon in "Hell Bent" and nobody's going to even mention he was about to destroy the universe? If that doesn't deserve the death penalty, I don't know what does

Since Rassilon is the founding father of Time Lord society, it stands to reason Gallifreyans would give him close to unlimited carte blanche.

 

[Mr Light]

The Timelords of the classic series were certainly sanctimonious assholes, but they were more inept than sinister. They certainly weren't out to destroy all life in the universe.

I really wish that Dalton's character wasn't THE Rassilon. It's such a huge concept to throw away on a fleeting reference. He could have just been the current leader of the time and it would not have affected the story one bit. Resurrecting Rassilon should have been a much larger story.

 

[JoeZhang]

The Timelords of the classic series were certainly sanctimonious assholes, but they were more inept than sinister. They certainly weren't out to destroy all life in the universe.

I really wish that Dalton's character wasn't THE Rassilon. It's such a huge concept to throw away on a fleeting reference. He could have just been the current leader of the time and it would not have affected the story one bit. Resurrecting Rassilon should have been a much larger story.

Not really - like all other Timelords, the stories are better than the reality - Rassilon is an old dude in a bedsheet. SM realises this and while he returns Gallifrey, he only does so to further another story.

 

[Ithekro]

Rassilon's plan failed, and the Doctor won the Time War. Kind of throws cold water on Rassilon's plans to do anything really. And he made the Doctor mad. What the Doctor did to Rassilon wasn't about recent events, it was over the Time War.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I did like the fact that Moffatt at least tied up Rassilon's story while giving him an escape route to come back later on. I think it's safe to say that both he and the rest of the (presumably asshole-esque) High Council were exiled as a direct consequence of the Final Sanction plan. Moffatt simply chose to leave the details of it all to us fans and not bog down the Doctor Clara story he wanted to tell - typical of his style of storytelling. He's gone and set up a rogue faction of time lords and possibly a future conflict between them and someone (The Doctor? Gallifrey? Daleks? All of the above?) without dwelling on the small things, and also leaving Gallifrey itself untouched in the meantime. Smart choice.

I would have preferred more world building and backstory than what we got. It's like learning all about the Pacific theatre second world war and then finally going to Japan and eating sushi instead. Still, we got great sushi, so there is some payoff...

The Doctor has said that he chose to remember Gallifrey in some rose-hued manner. Still, it's not that realistic to paint ALL Gallifreyans as warmongering jerks, including the Shobogans and friendlier inhabitants who may still be there. So, we show Time Lord society as being corrupt towards the top, with a more moderate element (The General and his/her ilk) doing the fighting and actual work around the shop. I'm good with that.

Mark

 

[Tom]

How about Rassilon teaming up with old pal Omega (who is trapped in the antimatter universe) to reek vengeance on the Timelords and the Doctor!

 

[Skellington]

But once that's established it's just so weird to have the show completely skip over it afterwards. So we meet a non-Dalton Rassilon in "Hell Bent" and nobody's going to even mention he was about to destroy the universe?

Maybe he did and it was reinstated.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

It's no biggie - in the classic series, Borusa showed up four times in the space of seven seasons of the show (or maybe a century or two to the Fourth and Fifth Doctors), and in each appearance he'd taken on a new incarnation - which was only barely glossed over each time. Various classic series references ("Aren't you due for regeneration..?"), and the Doctor's own attitude in "Hell Bent" suggests that regeneration on Gallifrey is nothing overly special.

My guess is that the Master zapped Rassilon (the former wasn't pulling punches as he likely was when he was zapping the Doctor earlier), and between that and whatever happened at the end of his previous episode caused him to regenerate. He still remained in charge though, but was moderate enough to NOT continue pushing for the Final Sanction thing while still maintaining a big hate on for the Doctor.

Mark

 

[Mr Light]

That reminds me of another dropped thread: what about the ashamed woman hiding her face, who we assumed was the Doctor's Mother?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I assume she went back to wherever she was during every single other visit the Doctor made back to Gallifrey. If the Doc wasn't close enough to drop in during ANY of his other visits, he's not really about to start now.

I know it was RTD who said that in his writer's mind, that woman was the Doctor's mother, but there's absolutely no dialogue or evidence to support (or refute) it. All we know is that she was a member of the ruling party of Gallifrey (though not necessarily the HIGH council, otherwise wouldn't she have been exiled with them on the next shuttle after Rassilon?), and that she was someone whom the Doctor knew and respected to some degree. Fans have thrown about the notion that she was Romana, Flavia, or even Susan, but until some writer definitely marks this person as such, she's no one we know for sure.

Mark

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That reminds me of another dropped thread: what about the ashamed woman hiding her face, who we assumed was the Doctor's Mother?

Why was she ashamed?

 

[The Wormhole]

I did like the fact that Moffatt at least tied up Rassilon's story while giving him an escape route to come back later on. I think it's safe to say that both he and the rest of the (presumably asshole-esque) High Council were exiled as a direct consequence of the Final Sanction plan. Moffatt simply chose to leave the details of it all to us fans and not bog down the Doctor Clara story he wanted to tell - typical of his style of storytelling. He's gone and set up a rogue faction of time lords and possibly a future conflict between them and someone (The Doctor? Gallifrey? Daleks? All of the above?) without dwelling on the small things, and also leaving Gallifrey itself untouched in the meantime. Smart choice.

The Rassilon bit in Hell Bent is typical of Moffat's death negating. in TEOT we're left with the implication that Rassilon is a dead man, the Master is pumping lightning into him as they are all returned to the Time War. Okay, so it isn't too much of a stretch hat Rassilon could have survived, and it\s easy enough to think up an explanation without being convoluted. But in typical fashion, Moffat takes a character who is dead, or at least presumed dead, brings them back, and then disposes of them. Moffat wrote this thinking it would be his penultimate episode as showrunner. He brought Rassilon back even though he had no plans on using the character. Moffat really doesn't like characters dying, does he?

How about Rassilon teaming up with old pal Omega (who is trapped in the antimatter universe) to reek vengeance on the Timelords and the Doctor!

As it was likely Rassilon who abandoned Omega in the antimatter universe (actually, it was Rassilon according to tie-ins) I can't imagine Omega feeling very sympathetic to Rassilon's plight.

That reminds me of another dropped thread: what about the ashamed woman hiding her face, who we assumed was the Doctor's Mother?

It wasn't dropped. Although intended to be the Doctor's mother, RTD intentionally left her unidentified for a combination of feeling it would be tacky to reveal she were his mother and wanting fans to think of her as whoever they wanted her to be.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well I assumed she was his mother but would have liked to have known why she was ashamed.. I guess I like to think on these things a bit hehe.

 

[Mr Soak]

It was because she didn't back Rassilon's plan. The two dissenters were forced to hide their faces in shame, "like the weeping angels of old".

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

It was because she didn't back Rassilon's plan. The two dissenters were forced to hide their faces in shame, "like the weeping angels of old".

Ah, so the Doctor's family is from the nobility..

 

[comsol]

Did anybody on Gallifrey outside of the High Council, even know what Rassilon's Final Sanction actually was? The War Council knew that the High Council had a plan, and that it failed, but they may never have know what the plan was. Somehow I doubt that Rassilon and the others would told anyone else after the fact.

 

[Mr Light]

After all this talk about the Time Lords... I want the next companion to be one!

A young inexperienced idealistic one who idolizes the Doctor. And let's be really revolutionary and make it a dude. A Time Lord fanboy!

And a SECOND Time Lord companion who is a soldier sent to be the Doctor's security detail. Think Gwendoline Christie. A tough as nails woman who has a dim view of the Doctor.