The Time War
- Thread starter Kaziarl
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Some races were mentioned. The Doctor rattles them off the The Master when Rassilon and friends (new kids show on CBBC) are coming thru.
If you mean this speech.
Then no he was talking about the things that were to come in the Time War.
Not were to come...that were time locked in the War. The Doctor was saying those things would return if Gallifrey and the Time Lords weren't sent back into the time lock.
The Ninth Doctor makes some references about the Time War and who was aware of it in series one.
The Ninth Doctor makes some references about the Time War and who was aware of it in series one.
which goes back to my point.. there is no mention of the races we already know worked with the daleks in the classic series..
I could see that... but what about Arcadia? What is the significance of that planet in the Time War? I know it was mentioned in the virgin novels, but it was also mentioned in the end of time, where the Doctor mentions he was there at the fall of Arcadia.. or was that the 9th doctor?? I forget..
I am kinda intrigued by Arcadia..
was it a time lord colony? An allied race with their own military force akin to the federation from star trek? Or were they more in line with BSG and had massive carrier ships with smaller fighters??
the support aspect and allies that could have been part of the time war is really an interesting part that seems to be skipped over and not really touched on too much. But you figure there were races who would have come to the Time Lord's aide.. their home planet was in the middle of a busy ship traffic lane..those races were probably involved, and logically the Daleks had their own empires and conquered races as well.. so to me, that would be not too much of a stretch to see them used for fodder..
I need to research references of the Arcadians.. they seem such a uniquely interesting subject..
(I wonder if Arcadia was in the time lock, if it was not, then the fall of that planet is it's future..but then what of it's past.. could we not see the doctor visit it before the time war began?? that would be pretty brilliant to see! IMHPOV)
Edit: here is what I found thus far.. check it out, and it seems like such a rich place to explore in the new series, especially if Arcadia is as technologically advanced as it is suggested..I can envision vast white and chrome complexes akin to the cloning facilities in the Star Wars Prequels..with eco-engineering at it's maximum peak, and a paradise planet, with a massive fleet and advanced military.. with ships akin to the TNG style light paneled or touch screen technology, or even holographic control systems.. with massive carrier warships and small advanced fighters..
the shining jewel of an advanced space society..
which could make the statement by the 10th doctor all that more relevant, as he truly admired the Arcadians, and their fall in the Time war all that more devastating considering they were a model society of space peace, strength and freedom...
Anyhow, here is the info thus far on Arcadia for those interested:
the fact that diamonds from arcadia are mentioned in TW and that Jack and his partner are from the 51st or 52nd century tells me that Arcadia is still around then.. which begs the question of whether or not the time war was fought in the future, or part of it started in the 51st or 52nd century and then ended up being fought back in the distant past..???
the shining jewel of an advanced space society..
which could make the statement by the 10th doctor all that more relevant, as he truly admired the Arcadians, and their fall in the Time war all that more devastating considering they were a model society of space peace, strength and freedom...
Anyhow, here is the info thus far on Arcadia for those interested:
Arcadia was the name of at least one place, but plausibly more than one place, in the universe.
According to one account, it was planet on which a human colony was established in the 26th century. The Doctor visited Arcadia and found it to be a non-technological paradise which served as a living specimen for a centuries-long experiment. (NA: Deceit)
The Sixth Doctor once decided to take Frobisher and Peri to Arcadia. He told of its "rolling fields, glittering still lakes and vast cloudless skies". However, he landed on the Mayflower by mistake. DWM: Profits of Doom)
Other references to Arcadia were considerably more vague, and failed to go so far as to call it a planet. It was possible that these additional references considered a city, planet, system, or empire, which may have been different from the 26th century human colony of the same name. The principal fact known about Arcadia from these sources was that it was the site of a major event in the Last Great Time War. The Tenth Doctor once mentioned that he was present at the Fall of Arcadia during that war, and that he still hadn't gotten over its fall. (DW: Doomsday) Later, the Eleventh Doctor took Amy Pond to Arcadia, suggesting that it was not entirely time-locked like other parts of the Time War. Her comment to the Doctor that he was being exceptionally nice to her by taking her to Arcadia suggested that it was a pleasant place, at least when they visited it. (DW: Vincent and the Doctor)
Provided that the reference was to the Arcadia of the Time War, the only specific fact known about Arcadia was that its diamonds were very valuable. (TW: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang)
According to one account, it was planet on which a human colony was established in the 26th century. The Doctor visited Arcadia and found it to be a non-technological paradise which served as a living specimen for a centuries-long experiment. (NA: Deceit)
The Sixth Doctor once decided to take Frobisher and Peri to Arcadia. He told of its "rolling fields, glittering still lakes and vast cloudless skies". However, he landed on the Mayflower by mistake. DWM: Profits of Doom)
Other references to Arcadia were considerably more vague, and failed to go so far as to call it a planet. It was possible that these additional references considered a city, planet, system, or empire, which may have been different from the 26th century human colony of the same name. The principal fact known about Arcadia from these sources was that it was the site of a major event in the Last Great Time War. The Tenth Doctor once mentioned that he was present at the Fall of Arcadia during that war, and that he still hadn't gotten over its fall. (DW: Doomsday) Later, the Eleventh Doctor took Amy Pond to Arcadia, suggesting that it was not entirely time-locked like other parts of the Time War. Her comment to the Doctor that he was being exceptionally nice to her by taking her to Arcadia suggested that it was a pleasant place, at least when they visited it. (DW: Vincent and the Doctor)
Provided that the reference was to the Arcadia of the Time War, the only specific fact known about Arcadia was that its diamonds were very valuable. (TW: Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang)
the fact that diamonds from arcadia are mentioned in TW and that Jack and his partner are from the 51st or 52nd century tells me that Arcadia is still around then.. which begs the question of whether or not the time war was fought in the future, or part of it started in the 51st or 52nd century and then ended up being fought back in the distant past..???
I say leave the Time War alone. RTD is right whatever they tried to do (novel, comic, movie, mini-series) it will never meet fan expectation (see the work of Lawerence Miles to see how fracked up it can get).
Small pieces in the right context. OK, but they should never do the whole thing (see SW prequels to see how fracked up it can get)
Small pieces in the right context. OK, but they should never do the whole thing (see SW prequels to see how fracked up it can get)
I think that it may be those writers who screwed that up..
I am talking a novel done by either RTD or Moffat, or a collab between the two.. I think with the right execution, and research done between the newer continuity and the older, and the correct and researched (realistic) science fiction theories..
a Novel about the Time war could work..but it would take some serious and concise planning..not to mention like I said.. 5 years in the making..to plan the structure of the war, place the allies and enemies, and the weaponry behind it..
describing it to a point to leave something to the imagination would certainly meet fan expectations..
I saw Star Wars when I was a kid on VHS..when Empire and Return of the Jedi came out.. I was stunned and in awe.. the expectation built up by the first film, and word of mouth or interviews subsequent to their release made some skeptical about those last 2 movies living up to the expectation of the first.. and yet it did..
But back to the time war itself..
Of course the story is going to be told from the Doctor's POV, so it would only mention and reference the parts of the battle which he saw and was privy to.. beyond that it doesn't have to be a full retelling of the entire war..still leaving many things a mystery..
RTD won't do it because he knows he can't. Moffat has his own epic (The amazing adventures of River Song and her sweatie the Doctor)
You should be in fandom long enough to know that kind of effort doesn't exist. When people get anything right it's purely by chance. The lesson is don't tempt fate unless you want to be incinerated by fan wank.
Then came the prequels and then you realized the George Lucas is the luckiest man in the universe but his luck just ran out.
I don't think RTD ever said he knows he can't write the Time War..he did afterall write the synopsis introducing the Time War.. and at that time he hadn't been working closely with Moffat..things change, and in some cases some writers especially RTD and Moffat who have epic imaginations could decide to tackle the Time war as a novel..the future is certainly unwritten.. I am just making the case that it is "possible to do and do well" is all.. not that I am suggesting they "will" do it.
And Moffat is certainly capable of doing other things that do not involve River Song..
what's so wrong with Fanwank? I think the Doctor's wife was a great deal of fanwank, and look how well that was recieved...Since when did fanwank become such a bad term anyhow? I mean if you watch doctor who in any fashion.. and have seen enough to become a fan, then fanwank is what you would probably want.. it also would garner interest in the previous series for those new to the genre..since the time war didn't occur during the classic who, it doesn't alienate those newer fans who have yet to see the classic series..
I will admit the prequels were Brilliant in some areas, and extremely lacking in others.. especially the writing of the whole thing, Jar Jar binks, the supposed tepid romance between Anakin and Padme, and the horrible chemistry between the two actors..episode 1 gave me hope until Jar Jar, and the death of Darth Maul..but it is what it is..
the time war is fresh, and still a new subject which it's official history and events not written in stone.. there is so much that could be done..who is to say that research and development of a book is not being done right now..
Again all I am saying in this is that it "could be done, and done well if the correct time and effort were put in." To say that would never happen because of the nature of the industry leaves little faith in the BBC and the brilliant writings of RTD and Moffat who have to do those wonderful stories on a tight schedule.. pack so much into an hour, and make it flow properly..
Imagine what they could do with time and well thought out plots..
I stand by my statement..If RTD and Moffat collaborated..it would be one of the greatest novels of the Doctor who series..
It'd be a real good 50th Anniversary series. At least the end of it. And it could bring all the (surviving) Doctors together. They all have to agree to use The Moment. And there's a few episodes, why to use or not use it with arguments for/against from each Doctor.
Time War aside.. it would be nice to see the current doctor end up in a pre-time war Arcadia.. or the continuation of the mention of that place in torchwood as well..
The only person who should write the Time War in a novel or whatever other format should be Russell. He's the one who came up with the idea for it, I'm sure if he took the time to expand on the things he mentioned in his original essay that he could tell the rest of the story.
Another thing that I would be interested in though if the BBC or RTD don't want to go a novel trilogy route would be a Time War anthology series perhaps Edited By RTD and involving selected Who writers appointed by him to tell specific major events of the War. I think this could be a great idea.
Another thing that I would be interested in though if the BBC or RTD don't want to go a novel trilogy route would be a Time War anthology series perhaps Edited By RTD and involving selected Who writers appointed by him to tell specific major events of the War. I think this could be a great idea.
Ooh, I can see it now Tales from the Time War: An Anthology
^ That's precisely what I was thinking of. For instance I'd love to see what someone like Neil Gaiman would come up with for "The Nightmare Child"!! Perhaps you could have Lance Parkins work with RTD and come up with a brief timeline of events as an appendix at the back of the book.
that actually sounds a bit more reasonable to get different perspectives involved, and different writing styles. I can see that being a huge hit, as long as RTD and Moffat were involved, with RTD having the main duties overseeing the continuity and such..
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