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"The third great SF franchise"??

When it comes to general public awareness, there isn't a third one on the same level as those two.

Certainly not Doctor Who--its an isolated stepchild of sci-fi not recognized as part of the backdrop of culture. Contrary to DW fans, DW references on TV shows targeting nerd culture, etc., is not mainstream recognition to the point where it becomes part of the landscape.

I think it's tough to deny that Doctor Who is pretty prevalent in America now. All of my students seem to know what it is and many watch it. I see tons of Doctor Who paraphernalia at stores, as well.
 
When it comes to general public awareness, there isn't a third one on the same level as those two.

Certainly not Doctor Who--its an isolated stepchild of sci-fi not recognized as part of the backdrop of culture. Contrary to DW fans, DW references on TV shows targeting nerd culture, etc., is not mainstream recognition to the point where it becomes part of the landscape.

I think it's tough to deny that Doctor Who is pretty prevalent in America now. All of my students seem to know what it is and many watch it. I see tons of Doctor Who paraphernalia at stores, as well.

My mom is a high school teacher, and she actually has her own Doctor Who club. They meet every other Friday.

Last year her classroom won the Christmas door-decorating contest because she made it look like a TARDIS.
 
"Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to puree of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one or all in a bunch to back it up!" - Harlan Ellison
 
Wow. No love for Battlestar Galactica - either version? or Space: 1999? Let me be the first, then. I'm a sucker for 70's classic sci-fi...
 
Wow. No love for Battlestar Galactica - either version? or Space: 1999? Let me be the first, then. I'm a sucker for 70's classic sci-fi...

I don't think we're ranking them based on our personal preference.

I think we're talking about how big and important they are in the world of Science Fiction.
 
"Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to puree of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one or all in a bunch to back it up!" - Harlan Ellison

Run through the Asshurt-a-tron Translator, Ellison's statement really says:

"I'm eternally pissed because the one thing i'm best known for--the one thing that anyone will talk about when I die, is a Star Trek episode that is only so great...because it was so heavily rewritten. Thanks to that burning needle to my brain, I wrote the most whiny, asshurt complaint book about that episode! Do you have it? Anyway, I only wish my own self-inflated, non-Trek work ever reached as many as Star Wars--the series that sickens me, because it successfully mixed damned religious ideas with sci-fi. They cannot hold a candle to my thoughtful, earth-shaking scripts for The Starlost and The Flying Nun, so **** all of you!" - Harlan Ellison
Back to the thread. :)
 
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I've yet to see a good argument why Doctor Who doesn't count other than it's a niche geek thing in America. America's not the whole world. ;) It's cornerstone of popular culture in Britain, mainstream and massive.

And does no one want to comment on my nomination of Anderson/APF/Century 21 as one of the greats?:devil:
 
Number 3 is easy and its Marvel, some of it is drama, superheroes with capes, fantasy but I think there is enough scifi in Marvel to rank it as a Scifi Franchise...Ironman, Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy and the toons...easily takes that 3rd spot, but there are arguements if its more low-scifi and of course studios like Fox own Marvel's copyright for different characters...Marvel I feel is easily number 3 and possibly challenges 2nd and 1st spot depending how you add up all those comics, toons and movies, the Bond books and movies and DC universe should also challenge for third..not sure why DC's scifi universe doesn't work so well or why movies like Green Lantern were done so bad
Well, I think this depends on if you mean the MCU, or the overall Marvel Comics Universe and everything based on it going through it's whole history. If it's the first, I'd have to say that it's to new to put it up with Star Trek and Star Wars. It's only been around for a little over a decade, and we really have no idea how it will be looked at in another 10 or 20 years. At this point Trek and Wars have been around for decades, and have a pretty solid place in popular culture, and the MCU is nowhere near that level. If you mean the comics, then I'd have to say DC is slightly ahead of it. Prior to the MCU, Spider-Man was really the only Marvel character with a solid place in the overall pop culture, while DC has both Superman and Batman, who are both probably even more well know than Spidey.
 
I just feel like we must be talking about space genres. Superheroes and comics are obviously hugely well-known and popular, but they fall into their own category.
 
There is no third great SF franchise. Star Trek and Star Wars stand in a league of their own.
 
I've yet to see a good argument why Doctor Who doesn't count other than it's a niche geek thing in America. America's not the whole world. ;)

Dick Cheney scowls at you. ;)


It's cornerstone of popular culture in Britain, mainstream and massive.
You provided the answer: you say its a "cornerstone of popular culture in Britain, mainstream and massive," but that is not true anywhere else. I've traveled enough to know images of Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker or Shatner's Kirk and Nimoy's Spock are instantly recognizable, even to those who do not count themselves as fans. That is an example of mainstream and massive, as its not isolated to a small group who needs to be "in on" the production in order to be recognized for its characters, history, etc.

I seriously doubt the average person on streets of the world would--on the spot--recognize images of Tom Baker, Sylvester McCoy, David Tennant, or Colin Baker as the Doctor.

And does no one want to comment on my nomination of Anderson/APF/Century 21 as one of the greats?:devil:
No.

At this point Trek and Wars have been around for decades, and have a pretty solid place in popular culture, and the MCU is nowhere near that level.

All true. The MCU is a franchise, but its not sci-fi, and in terms of cultural impact, mass productions alone do not mean its relevant. Its just a well-funded series, but I do not find it difficult to argue that in 20 years, most of the MCU will seem like a blur, in part thanks to the "maxi-series" approach to linked films, with only a small handful standing out as solid productions.

If you mean the comics, then I'd have to say DC is slightly ahead of it. Prior to the MCU, Spider-Man was really the only Marvel character with a solid place in the overall pop culture, while DC has both Superman and Batman, who are both probably even more well know than Spidey.
Again, true. Spider-Man is one of the few comic characters to transcend the native medium, but Superman and Batman jumped to modern myth status long ago, at least where superhero fiction is concerned.
 
I've yet to see a good argument why Doctor Who doesn't count other than it's a niche geek thing in America. America's not the whole world. ;) It's cornerstone of popular culture in Britain, mainstream and massive.

I almost want to say Dr Who just based off of longevity but it's not just niche in the US. It's practically unheard of on a world wide scale. There's a reason no one is rushing to produce a 200 million dollar Dr Who epic. Nobody even knows what it is.
 
Dr Who has a very devoted fan base and gets frequent pop cultural references in nerd-related shows, but it doesn't get particularly good ratings and a movie would only be an event for people inside its hardcore following.
 
I have to go with Stargate - one theatrical movie, three series with approximately 350 episodes between them, and then two more movies. Plus apparently another new movie based on the original concept.
There is also a cartoon series, but the less said about that the better.
 
I have to go with Stargate - one theatrical movie, three series with approximately 350 episodes between them, and then two more movies. Plus apparently another new movie based on the original concept.
There is also a cartoon series, but the less said about that the better.

Well if we're just going by quantity of episodes/movies then several franchises absolute crush Stargate. Gundam, Macross, Power Rangers/Super Sentei, Transformers, etc. To be compared to Star Trek and Star Wars you need far more than just volume.
 
On the scale of popularity and general awareness, Stargate is pretty far down the list. More people are aware of Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Farscape and Firefly than are aware of Stargate, even though Stargate has more volume.
 
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