The STV:TFF appreciation thread
- Thread starter Kor
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I enjoyed Laurence Luckinbill's performance a lot. I'm surprised he couldn't turn it into more high profile roles since---although the movie wasn't well received---he was good IMO.
Sybok is one of the more interesting characters in the TOS films.
It would've been cool to have a Sarek (Mark Lenard) scene with Sybok. Can you imagine cold, stoic Sarek in the same scene with eccentric, emotional Sybok. It could've been a nice moment.
In fact, that's probably a lost opportunity in the screenplay: having Sarek, Spock and Amanda dealing with Sybok.
Sybok could've made a pitstop on Vulcan before heading out to the Great Barrier.
Sybok is one of the more interesting characters in the TOS films.
It would've been cool to have a Sarek (Mark Lenard) scene with Sybok. Can you imagine cold, stoic Sarek in the same scene with eccentric, emotional Sybok. It could've been a nice moment.
In fact, that's probably a lost opportunity in the screenplay: having Sarek, Spock and Amanda dealing with Sybok.
Sybok could've made a pitstop on Vulcan before heading out to the Great Barrier.
Or they could have done a flashback to when Sybok left Vulcan. Have Leonard Nimoy, Mark Lenard and Jane Wyatt on hand to help with their characterization if necessary. But it would have to have a very stoic-looking Sarek standing there acting very cool and calm while dismissing Sybok, all they while his ears burning a bright green.
I really love the character interaction between the Big Three in this movie. Wish it were in a better movie, tho'. Also, the Kirk in this movie is the closest we get to the television version, even to the point that he once again thwarts a false god.
This never gets old.
That whole scene is beautifully done.
I've mentioned this before, but here goes:
1. Create the "missing third act" (much easier with today's digital manipulations), which shows their journey to the centre of the galaxy, develops Sybok and his visions, shows the Klingons following their trail, and explains how they penetrate the barrier.
2. Also, as mentioned above, cut most of the slapstick that follows Sybok seizing the Enterprise. I don't mind comedy in Trek, but it saps the tension from this part of the film.
These two things would "fix" the main problems of what is for me still quite a lovable movie.
I'm still now and forever will be a huge fan of this movie. I get what people find cringe-worthy, but, I don't care. There's too much awesome in this movie for me to hate on it like the masses. For me, it's the one movie that really feels like a TOS episode. Much more than any of the other installments. I agree it has a bit too much schlock and the Scotty-Uhura relationship seems to have come out of nowhere (and disappear as quickly come TUC) And Uhura's palm frond dance is kind of a WTF moment in a few different ways. (Why are these guys SO enthralled by her? Why don't they shoot or try to capture her? Where the hell did she get palm fronds?)
But the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic shined brightly and the story approached some pretty big themes and is pretty thoughtful under it's surface.
I really love this movie.
--Alex
But the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic shined brightly and the story approached some pretty big themes and is pretty thoughtful under it's surface.
I really love this movie.
--Alex
Very nice, sir. That's pretty much where I'm at.
Cynthia Gouw, playing Caithlin Dar, was quite a stunner. She did not have much of a chance to shine, here, but she seemed very sweet, by Romulan or Human standards, and I enjoy her performance.
If they would release a Special Edition of it with certain corrections, but a lack of willingness to reinvent the wheel, there are some things that would help me like the movie more:
1) drop in CGI characters making Sybok's takeover of Paradise City more dramatic and interesting, frankly. Baldy, the field hole digger even threatened to pebble-shoot Sybok over his worthless claim. As it is, Sybok just rides in triumphantly, with an odd one or two extras sort of wrestling over a gun on the side, but that's about it.
2) If they used CGI, with a combination of clever editing, to make the wiring of the Catwoman attack less obvious. Putting emphasis on her struggle, being held up. She's not doing too much other than hissing like a cat, but generally trying not to move alot.
3) trim out alot of the unsuccessful lines of humour. For example: When Spock refers to Sybok as "someone I knew in my youth" and Bones says, "Why Spock, I never knew you had one" ... it's just shoehorned in, it doesn't even agree with the tone of the scene, at all. Or like when Kirk & Spock ride into town and Kirk goes, "Spock, be one with the horse!" it's so flat and unfunny, just get rid of that. Chekov's "wonderful muscles" and down the line ... just get rid of ALLLLLL of those stupid jokes that didn't work.
4) Using CGI and improved editing of Kirk's rescue sequence, when he fights off the town. It's just not exciting enough. Maybe insert more pyrotechnics, use CGI people in the background fighting for their lives and ... and so forth.
5) Improve the "god-creature" and maybe taper-off some of the edge of the column of light that he's in. He just looks like he's a hologram of Moses. Try to make it look more awestruck and reverent, some way ...
If they would release a Special Edition of it with certain corrections, but a lack of willingness to reinvent the wheel, there are some things that would help me like the movie more:
1) drop in CGI characters making Sybok's takeover of Paradise City more dramatic and interesting, frankly. Baldy, the field hole digger even threatened to pebble-shoot Sybok over his worthless claim. As it is, Sybok just rides in triumphantly, with an odd one or two extras sort of wrestling over a gun on the side, but that's about it.
2) If they used CGI, with a combination of clever editing, to make the wiring of the Catwoman attack less obvious. Putting emphasis on her struggle, being held up. She's not doing too much other than hissing like a cat, but generally trying not to move alot.
3) trim out alot of the unsuccessful lines of humour. For example: When Spock refers to Sybok as "someone I knew in my youth" and Bones says, "Why Spock, I never knew you had one" ... it's just shoehorned in, it doesn't even agree with the tone of the scene, at all. Or like when Kirk & Spock ride into town and Kirk goes, "Spock, be one with the horse!" it's so flat and unfunny, just get rid of that. Chekov's "wonderful muscles" and down the line ... just get rid of ALLLLLL of those stupid jokes that didn't work.
4) Using CGI and improved editing of Kirk's rescue sequence, when he fights off the town. It's just not exciting enough. Maybe insert more pyrotechnics, use CGI people in the background fighting for their lives and ... and so forth.
5) Improve the "god-creature" and maybe taper-off some of the edge of the column of light that he's in. He just looks like he's a hologram of Moses. Try to make it look more awestruck and reverent, some way ...
Yes, I think the hate her character gets is purely flack from general TFF distaste. I wish she had had more to do later in the movie.
I never noticed actual wires, but the way she flies is obviously fake. They could increase the speed of Kirk's throw and then insert a CG character to the point where she hits the water.
I think I have mentally edited out that horse line already - I have no recollection of it at all! I didn't mind the muscle line; it could be better written, but as part of the post-climax wind-down I think it fits.
I've never seen the wires on Catwoman, myself, but the manner in which she's held and flung makes it so obvious and apparent that this is what they used, it's like "why did they bother?" It was the fastest, cheapest way to get it on screen, I guess, but it doesn't work at convincing anybody. I know TFF will never get the TMP-DC treatment, even though TMP wasn't the film that needed it. How ironic is that? I suspect Paramount doesn't want to throw "good" money after "bad," but the audience at home might appreciate the gesture and make it worth their while. Oh, well ... what can you do, you know? What can you do ...
See, though, I loved the rear projection. It gave the film a layer of reality. The fact that the barrier was out of focus and the camera was moving really helped sell that scene. I love rear projection when done right and this was absolutely done right. Those shots of the barrier looked great.
The interior of said barrier, however, did not live up to that promise. Swirling, colored liquids with obviously dissipating bubbles do not an energy barrier make.
Yeah, I love this movie, too. I love them all, actually.
As is this thread.
