The STV:TFF appreciation thread
- Thread starter Kor
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Rock monsters. And a re-edit so that overlapping lines in scenes that are supposed to be happening all at once are actually overlapping. Which won't happen, as most of them would have to be reshot.
The main example would be when Enterprise first gets to Nimbus III. I counted, and there are nine separate cuts in about a minute and a half, just so everybody can have their lines featured with their own closeup. The scene would be better served, and take less than a minute, if it had four cuts, and Uhura is heard behind Kirk and Spock as they debate how to proceed without the transporter, instead of in isolation.
We'd still hear her, and she'd be in the shot(if staged and framed correctly), but more time would be free to tell more important stuff while keeping the running time down to where the studio wanted it.
Despite it being my least favourite Trek movie, I'll always appreciate the big three scenes in this movie and the score.
I'd like to see the majority of the FX re-done, and find some way to CGI out the deck numbers in the 'deck 78' sequence, it would help the movie no end.
I'd like to see the majority of the FX re-done, and find some way to CGI out the deck numbers in the 'deck 78' sequence, it would help the movie no end.
I love Star Trek V. Flawed, but well-intended...at least it was an attempt at something bold and big, where so much of Trek plays it safe otherwise.
I think the character stuff is great. Some (some) of the humor plays well. The plot is reminiscent of a classic Trek episode, which is always very attractive. I like the build-up to their arrival at the barrier. The scenes in the observation room are some of the best in the film franchise.
If I could change anything (in an imaginary world where anything can be changed) I'd make some minor edits to cut the more campy moments. I'd include some of the plot points that were made in the novelization, to give Sybok some further development and provide some context for his beliefs, as well as providing a far better explanation of the Great Barrier and how they manage to get through it.
I'd also update the model and motion control work. Some of the shots of the Enterprise are so crappy that the original series actually looks more convincing.
I think the character stuff is great. Some (some) of the humor plays well. The plot is reminiscent of a classic Trek episode, which is always very attractive. I like the build-up to their arrival at the barrier. The scenes in the observation room are some of the best in the film franchise.
If I could change anything (in an imaginary world where anything can be changed) I'd make some minor edits to cut the more campy moments. I'd include some of the plot points that were made in the novelization, to give Sybok some further development and provide some context for his beliefs, as well as providing a far better explanation of the Great Barrier and how they manage to get through it.
I'd also update the model and motion control work. Some of the shots of the Enterprise are so crappy that the original series actually looks more convincing.
My God, you guys are mindreaders.
I was just thinking it would be awesome to have a Director's Edition of this movie.
Anyway, this thread is especially appropriate for me because I've recently "rediscovered" TFF and gained an appreciation for it.
I mean, I never hated it, but I definitely understood the criticism and had a mainstream reaction to the film though I like to think that I was somewhat forgiving in my attitude at the same time.
One thing I love about TFF is the way we see Kirk, Spock and Bones interact with each other. If there's ONE thing that TFF got right, it was this. NO OTHER TREK FILM has captured the Kirk/Spock/Bones relationship so perfectly and so well.
I actually have a beer next to me now and will drink a toast to TFF...
I was just thinking it would be awesome to have a Director's Edition of this movie.
Anyway, this thread is especially appropriate for me because I've recently "rediscovered" TFF and gained an appreciation for it.
I mean, I never hated it, but I definitely understood the criticism and had a mainstream reaction to the film though I like to think that I was somewhat forgiving in my attitude at the same time.
One thing I love about TFF is the way we see Kirk, Spock and Bones interact with each other. If there's ONE thing that TFF got right, it was this. NO OTHER TREK FILM has captured the Kirk/Spock/Bones relationship so perfectly and so well.
I actually have a beer next to me now and will drink a toast to TFF...
The TMP ones looked like they were one shade away from mental hospital escapees.
They probably scrapped them along with the footie pajamas. And the TWOK/SFS jackets work as what they are; environmental protection in landing party situations. The field uniforms in TFF are clearly meant to be similar to SWAT team uniforms, or commando uniforms like the SEALS or Rangers, and would be used for that purpose, much as they were in TFF, in fact.
As bad as some of the visuals are in TFF, there are a few that are my favorite in the series:
1. The Enterprise against Earth's moon
2. The Enterprise in orbit of Sha Ka Ree, with the column of light shooting upward from the surface
3. The otherworldly and ominous glow of the Great Barrier, growing in the distance as the Observation Lounge scene progresses
1. The Enterprise against Earth's moon
2. The Enterprise in orbit of Sha Ka Ree, with the column of light shooting upward from the surface
3. The otherworldly and ominous glow of the Great Barrier, growing in the distance as the Observation Lounge scene progresses
Starborn Dragon
Captain
My favorite armor piercing line:
What does god want with a starship?
What does god want with a starship?
I think "The Shat" came up with a profound & deep concept about Life/Death/Friends/Family/God. It doesnt really get bigger than that. I applaud him for his attempt to say something. There was ambition, and I think he really ponders these things. These are his concerns. At least, Im convinced of that after reading Marshak & Culbreaths "Shatner: Where No Man...".
The fact that TFF is slammed by everyone makes me love it more because its an underdog with a genuine effort to be more than it ultimately was.
I think it's a GOOD Trek movie.
The movie had heart: Kirk/Spock/McCoy. I love that Shat at once gave his supporting cast moments & also made their characters look like idiots too- The navagator & helmsman lost in the forest; Scotty knocking himself out. There seems to be an undercurrent of Shat thinking the supporting cast is a "joke"/unnecessary/ That "Trek" IS Shat-Spock-McCoy. Theres something going on here-
- I love the openiing on El Capatain. Goldsmiths music is wonderful. The image of Shat climbing the mountain is a nice reference to Man trying to get closer to Heaven & God.
Sybok is such a misguided fool that I just cant help but root for him a little bit. Hes not a villain. And I enjoy- in a sadistic way- seeing it all blow up in his face!!
Small bits:
-I like the Enterprise bridge and the room with the boat wheel. Nice touch!
-I like the Theatrical One Sheet
- I like the use of the shuttlecraft
- McCoys dads death is actually a good scene, & when you think about it- fleshes out McCoy more than TOS ever did.
-Visually, I like the color pallette by the designers. This was a competently Directed movie too.
I'm always tempted to call "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" my favorite movie, but IV & VI are better. I'm not one of those Trekkies that needs my Trek to be serious, or about technobabble, or FX. I want it to be ABOUT something with good CHARACTER moments--and "The Final Frontier" delivers.
The fact that TFF is slammed by everyone makes me love it more because its an underdog with a genuine effort to be more than it ultimately was.
I think it's a GOOD Trek movie.
The movie had heart: Kirk/Spock/McCoy. I love that Shat at once gave his supporting cast moments & also made their characters look like idiots too- The navagator & helmsman lost in the forest; Scotty knocking himself out. There seems to be an undercurrent of Shat thinking the supporting cast is a "joke"/unnecessary/ That "Trek" IS Shat-Spock-McCoy. Theres something going on here-
- I love the openiing on El Capatain. Goldsmiths music is wonderful. The image of Shat climbing the mountain is a nice reference to Man trying to get closer to Heaven & God.
Sybok is such a misguided fool that I just cant help but root for him a little bit. Hes not a villain. And I enjoy- in a sadistic way- seeing it all blow up in his face!!
Small bits:
-I like the Enterprise bridge and the room with the boat wheel. Nice touch!
-I like the Theatrical One Sheet
- I like the use of the shuttlecraft
- McCoys dads death is actually a good scene, & when you think about it- fleshes out McCoy more than TOS ever did.
-Visually, I like the color pallette by the designers. This was a competently Directed movie too.
I'm always tempted to call "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" my favorite movie, but IV & VI are better. I'm not one of those Trekkies that needs my Trek to be serious, or about technobabble, or FX. I want it to be ABOUT something with good CHARACTER moments--and "The Final Frontier" delivers.
I agree with a lot of this. I don't really think Shatner set out to make the supporting cast look stupid though. I really thought they genuinely tried to give them fun and spotlight-type moments, and they were badly written and slap sticky in some cases.
TFF was my favorite Trek film for a while, especially in the years after its release. In modern years, I still love it, but some of the earlier Treks have reclaimed the lead.
There are great moments in this film. There really are.
The entire observation lounge scene is excellent. We learn some interesting things about McCoy and we see Kirk in a very interesting light- both vulnerable and strong at the same time.
Some of the dialogue around the campfire is very good and very poignant.
The Enterprise journey through the barrier is a great moment of magic and anticipation...the kind of moment I love Trek for in the first place.
And, you're right, the opening climbing sequence and accompanying soundtrack is moving and inspiring.
id have liked to have seen a return of TWOK field jackets at least for a brief time
id add to that Kirk on top the mountain raising his fists to the BOP
I've also gained a new appreciation for this movie, more so now that I'm a little older. (Okay, I'm only 32 but it's a long way from watching this for first time at 10!)
As for a Director's Edition:
-re: the overlapping dialogue, it would depend on the coverage Shatner was originally able to shoot and, from everything I've read, he often wasn't able to get enough (or, in the case of everyone's separate close-ups, perhaps too much?!)
-re-do every single FX shot, but retain the original concepts (the column of light on Sha Ka Ree, the Enterprise against the moon, even the shuttle crash)... I suppose the scenes in the observation lounge and on the bridge would have to be rotoscoped (a consequence of using rear projection instead of bluescreen where the imagery could just be replaced)
-recut the ending: rock men, lava, the works!... maybe ILM could loan out the Galaxy Quest rock monster files
-re-edit the turbolift scene (obviously)
-this would be too expensive, but there are two shots where you see the TNG corridors (the female extra walking past, and Sybok's men responding to the alarm)... I'd like to see these re-shot on newly-rebuilt sets (or, at the very least, a change of color timing and the addition of some TUC-style wall signage could help...?)
As for a Director's Edition:
-re: the overlapping dialogue, it would depend on the coverage Shatner was originally able to shoot and, from everything I've read, he often wasn't able to get enough (or, in the case of everyone's separate close-ups, perhaps too much?!)
-re-do every single FX shot, but retain the original concepts (the column of light on Sha Ka Ree, the Enterprise against the moon, even the shuttle crash)... I suppose the scenes in the observation lounge and on the bridge would have to be rotoscoped (a consequence of using rear projection instead of bluescreen where the imagery could just be replaced)
-recut the ending: rock men, lava, the works!... maybe ILM could loan out the Galaxy Quest rock monster files
-re-edit the turbolift scene (obviously)
-this would be too expensive, but there are two shots where you see the TNG corridors (the female extra walking past, and Sybok's men responding to the alarm)... I'd like to see these re-shot on newly-rebuilt sets (or, at the very least, a change of color timing and the addition of some TUC-style wall signage could help...?)
Yeah, they were a ST version of a commando sweater or "wooly pully," which are still around but were more popular in the '80s for military and police uniforms.
It seems like ST5 always had it rough. I remember this from Late Night with David Letterman, summer of '89:
Top Ten Lines From The New Star Trek Movie
10. Captain! There's a horrible life form on your head! Oh, sorry, it's your hairpiece.
9. Surprise! Those aren't Dilithium Crystals -- they're Folgers Crystals!
8. Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor -- not a very good actor!
7. Don't let Kirk show you what he calls "the Captains's log."
6. Computer analysis of the tapes indicates it really is Rob Lowe
5. Geez -- I'm sick of you guys!
4. It's been a century since they changed your planet's name from Earth to Trump.
3. Oh, yeah? Well, beam this up, pal!
2. What the hell is Don King doing here?
1. Screw the Final Frontier! Let's go see Batman.
