***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results!
- Thread starter Eddie Roth
- Start date
Re: June 15 Results (Round 44)
^^^And me thinks it's a little of both.
It did (as TOs goes in production order on my watch). And I'm kinda with you on that one. I think WNMHGB is the best of the Trek pilots. However, when Broken Bow was brand new (and that was when the poll was done), it impressed quite a few people - including me. I still happen to think it's one of the best shows ENT has managed so far. But in hindsight, I would've voted differently - as no doubt quite a few others would've. ENT benefitted greatly from the novelty factor in the early fights. So, to level the playing field in the new ones, I've delayed the fights a few weeks so that new episodes do not have an unfair advantage (or disadvantage) against the others, but that everybody may look at all 5 with some distance before deciding.
Ah, tastes! How they differ! To me, along with a majority of BBS members, Galileo Seven was a good, if not great, show, way better than either the slow Too Short A Season or the highly derivative Heroes and Demons. Then again, it's a matter of taste - and democracy in this case.
Episode with most votes wins.
True. On the first count at least. But still, Menagerie Part 2 won its round, so it's not like anybody's slighted this classic.
Well, to 99% of the people round here, Duet is among Trek's all-time Top Ten episodes, so this win came as no surprise to me. Actually, I was surprised how anyone could possibly vote against it.
Now I'm no Niner in the narrow sense of the word (militant, wink wink
), but I like the show as much as the others, but I too would rank these three shows WAY way way above their competitors.
Now so much for my agreement with the outcome of some of the battles, but there were some I could never really figure out. But more on that in another post.
Thanks for your comments, by the way. I'd love this thread to become something more of a discussion about the results (This is, after all, another kind of Trek "Best Of" list, and therefore a potent seed for debate).
^^^And me thinks it's a little of both.
It did (as TOs goes in production order on my watch). And I'm kinda with you on that one. I think WNMHGB is the best of the Trek pilots. However, when Broken Bow was brand new (and that was when the poll was done), it impressed quite a few people - including me. I still happen to think it's one of the best shows ENT has managed so far. But in hindsight, I would've voted differently - as no doubt quite a few others would've. ENT benefitted greatly from the novelty factor in the early fights. So, to level the playing field in the new ones, I've delayed the fights a few weeks so that new episodes do not have an unfair advantage (or disadvantage) against the others, but that everybody may look at all 5 with some distance before deciding.
Posted by Billy Boy:
Again, this beat out "Eye of the Needle" ?!?!
"Danger of the Mind", "Hide & Q", and "State of Flux" were ALL better than this ep.!
Good episode, but "Too Short a Season" and "Heros and Demons" were both more enjoyable.
Ah, tastes! How they differ! To me, along with a majority of BBS members, Galileo Seven was a good, if not great, show, way better than either the slow Too Short A Season or the highly derivative Heroes and Demons. Then again, it's a matter of taste - and democracy in this case.
Episode with most votes wins. True. On the first count at least. But still, Menagerie Part 2 won its round, so it's not like anybody's slighted this classic.
Well, to 99% of the people round here, Duet is among Trek's all-time Top Ten episodes, so this win came as no surprise to me. Actually, I was surprised how anyone could possibly vote against it.
Now I'm no Niner in the narrow sense of the word (militant, wink wink
), but I like the show as much as the others, but I too would rank these three shows WAY way way above their competitors.Now so much for my agreement with the outcome of some of the battles, but there were some I could never really figure out. But more on that in another post.
Thanks for your comments, by the way. I'd love this thread to become something more of a discussion about the results (This is, after all, another kind of Trek "Best Of" list, and therefore a potent seed for debate).
The Round 46 tiebreaker ended with "Cogenitor" finalizing ENT's first victory in the last ten battles. It beat "Obsession" 23:12.
In Round 47, ENT didn't do bad either, but 11 votes for "Regeneration" were only enough for runner-up status. The winner (a little surprise, I might add): "The House of Quark" with 14 votes. At #3: TOS with "The Immunity Syndrome" (6 votes), followed closely by "Evolution" with 5, and last is "Sacred Ground" with only 2 supporters.
In Round 47, ENT didn't do bad either, but 11 votes for "Regeneration" were only enough for runner-up status. The winner (a little surprise, I might add): "The House of Quark" with 14 votes. At #3: TOS with "The Immunity Syndrome" (6 votes), followed closely by "Evolution" with 5, and last is "Sacred Ground" with only 2 supporters.
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
^^ So here's a question: I'm surprised by how well ENT has been doing and by how poorly VOY has been doing, why is that? I haven't been voting in this series for too long, so I'm curious as to why things have turned out the way they have? Also, alot of people on this board regard TNG's 1st and 2nd seasons as being quite poor, so why is it ranked so highly? It just seems a little odd that VOY, whose early seasons are generally regarded as being quite good, is doing so bad...
^^ So here's a question: I'm surprised by how well ENT has been doing and by how poorly VOY has been doing, why is that? I haven't been voting in this series for too long, so I'm curious as to why things have turned out the way they have? Also, alot of people on this board regard TNG's 1st and 2nd seasons as being quite poor, so why is it ranked so highly? It just seems a little odd that VOY, whose early seasons are generally regarded as being quite good, is doing so bad...
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
ENT has also done better than it probably should so far, because for most of the eps the clashes have been fresh after current ENT eps, though for the latest clashes the ENT ep in each clash is after a delay (?) to let the freshness wear off so ENT fans don't overwhelm the voting as much...ie they can consider the ep longer and weigh up if it really is as good in their eyes as the competitors.
ENT has also done better than it probably should so far, because for most of the eps the clashes have been fresh after current ENT eps, though for the latest clashes the ENT ep in each clash is after a delay (?) to let the freshness wear off so ENT fans don't overwhelm the voting as much...ie they can consider the ep longer and weigh up if it really is as good in their eyes as the competitors.
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
I don't think so. This isn't about "Which series is best?" or so, but simply about episode vs. episode. Even if you're primarily a VGR fan, that doesn't oblige you to vote for every VGR episode just because it's VGR. Same for all the other shows.
There may have been some good shows among VGR's first 50, but so far, only two of them were deemed the best in their position. So for example, when DS9 did its first "classic" episode, Duet, it was their 19th show. The 19th VGR episode was Projections. And while VGR fans think this is a good episode (I kinda do, too), I don't think anybody would seriously suggest it's better than Duet.
Another example: "Amok Time" - one of TOS's all-time best, and I'm sure everyone agrees on that, didn't win its battle, because TNG offered another classic as 35th episode, "The Measure of a Man". Both are great, but TNG was better. Now generally I prefer TOS over TNG, but still, I voted for "Measure".
It's supposed to be about "What's the better episode?" and sometimes, VGR did well, but hardly ever well enough. But don't worry: It looks as though "Future's End" might just win the current round.
I've tried to explain before why I think ENT has done so well despite its bad rap. But the key to an episode's victory is always how good or bad its competitors are.
I don't think so. This isn't about "Which series is best?" or so, but simply about episode vs. episode. Even if you're primarily a VGR fan, that doesn't oblige you to vote for every VGR episode just because it's VGR. Same for all the other shows.
There may have been some good shows among VGR's first 50, but so far, only two of them were deemed the best in their position. So for example, when DS9 did its first "classic" episode, Duet, it was their 19th show. The 19th VGR episode was Projections. And while VGR fans think this is a good episode (I kinda do, too), I don't think anybody would seriously suggest it's better than Duet.
Another example: "Amok Time" - one of TOS's all-time best, and I'm sure everyone agrees on that, didn't win its battle, because TNG offered another classic as 35th episode, "The Measure of a Man". Both are great, but TNG was better. Now generally I prefer TOS over TNG, but still, I voted for "Measure".
It's supposed to be about "What's the better episode?" and sometimes, VGR did well, but hardly ever well enough. But don't worry: It looks as though "Future's End" might just win the current round.
I've tried to explain before why I think ENT has done so well despite its bad rap. But the key to an episode's victory is always how good or bad its competitors are.
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
Yes, though I would like to point out that this is not done in order to weaken ENT in this competition, but only to level the playing field. Let me explain:
In one Clash, specifically Round 24, I accidentally switched the TOS episodes. "Devil in the Dark" was mistakenly entered instead of "This Side Of Paradise". So I had to redo the poll.
The first one was in May last year, and the brand-new "Shockwave" won, by what I recall was a huge margin. Anyway, the results were nullified.
In the rematch (which I think was in September or so), "Shockwave" suddenly didn't do so well anymore, and "The Neutral Zone" became the final winner. That made me think: Obviously, these few months had made people change their mind about the quality of the ENT episode. And not surprisingly so: "Shockwave" was a wham-bam episode, full of cool stuff to impress people - a typical season finale. Great for one viewing, but probably not another. So letting the initial excitement wear down just helps people to look at all five shows objectively.
This is why I'm really looking forward to Round 50, where "The Expanse" is among the contenders. Will people still be impressed by the (mostly empty) fireworks in that one, or will they support the much more rewarding "Who Watches The Watchers", or one of the others?
Yes, though I would like to point out that this is not done in order to weaken ENT in this competition, but only to level the playing field. Let me explain:
In one Clash, specifically Round 24, I accidentally switched the TOS episodes. "Devil in the Dark" was mistakenly entered instead of "This Side Of Paradise". So I had to redo the poll.
The first one was in May last year, and the brand-new "Shockwave" won, by what I recall was a huge margin. Anyway, the results were nullified.
In the rematch (which I think was in September or so), "Shockwave" suddenly didn't do so well anymore, and "The Neutral Zone" became the final winner. That made me think: Obviously, these few months had made people change their mind about the quality of the ENT episode. And not surprisingly so: "Shockwave" was a wham-bam episode, full of cool stuff to impress people - a typical season finale. Great for one viewing, but probably not another. So letting the initial excitement wear down just helps people to look at all five shows objectively.
This is why I'm really looking forward to Round 50, where "The Expanse" is among the contenders. Will people still be impressed by the (mostly empty) fireworks in that one, or will they support the much more rewarding "Who Watches The Watchers", or one of the others?
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
Eddie,
What will happen when Star Trek finishes its entire run in the clash. Will you go badk to season 1 and see how some of the classics match up with TNG's, DS9's, VOY's, or ENT's later episodes, or will it just end up in last place in the series rankings?
Eddie,
What will happen when Star Trek finishes its entire run in the clash. Will you go badk to season 1 and see how some of the classics match up with TNG's, DS9's, VOY's, or ENT's later episodes, or will it just end up in last place in the series rankings?
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
^^^Well, first of all, given the number of classics the show has produced (it already has 16 wins, more might come), I don't think it would necessarily fall that far behind.
Anyway, I have given this some thought as the Clash is fast approaching TOS's final season. There are basically two alternatives I've thought about:
1. The ranking system will be changed after TOS's last episode is through the Clash. Meaning instead of looking at the total number of battles any show has won (which we do now) we would look at what percentage of their individual episodes were successful.
So, let's say, in some years, when the last Clash has run its course, TOS will have had 79 episodes, TNG 178, DS9 176, VGR 172 and ENT (maybe) 182. Let's assume that. That means 181 clashes.
Now let's assume the final results are something like this, in absolute numbers:
This way, yes, TOS would come in last. But compared to the number of episodes the shows have had, it would look something like this:
Quite different, huh?
I think this might be the best way to assess a show's overall quality. I mean, what's better? A show that had a short, but great, run or a long-running series of which half the seasons were complete dreck?
The other alternative is
2. The Animated Episodes are included after TOS is over. I for one like TAS as much as all the others, and as they are a valid continuation of the Original Series (same characters, same actors, many of the original writers, etc) I think it might work. The scripts for TAS were written after the TOS ones, meaning the first Animated Episode might as well be seen not as the first episode of a new show, but as the 80th of the Original. So much for the Clash's concept of comparing episodes that in the same position in the show's order. But it would be a little stretch, I admit. Maybe you guys could offer me your opinions on this.
Do you think including TAS would be "fair" considering the concept of this poll?
^^^Well, first of all, given the number of classics the show has produced (it already has 16 wins, more might come), I don't think it would necessarily fall that far behind.
Anyway, I have given this some thought as the Clash is fast approaching TOS's final season. There are basically two alternatives I've thought about:
1. The ranking system will be changed after TOS's last episode is through the Clash. Meaning instead of looking at the total number of battles any show has won (which we do now) we would look at what percentage of their individual episodes were successful.
So, let's say, in some years, when the last Clash has run its course, TOS will have had 79 episodes, TNG 178, DS9 176, VGR 172 and ENT (maybe) 182. Let's assume that. That means 181 clashes.
Now let's assume the final results are something like this, in absolute numbers:
This way, yes, TOS would come in last. But compared to the number of episodes the shows have had, it would look something like this:
Quite different, huh?
I think this might be the best way to assess a show's overall quality. I mean, what's better? A show that had a short, but great, run or a long-running series of which half the seasons were complete dreck?
The other alternative is
2. The Animated Episodes are included after TOS is over. I for one like TAS as much as all the others, and as they are a valid continuation of the Original Series (same characters, same actors, many of the original writers, etc) I think it might work. The scripts for TAS were written after the TOS ones, meaning the first Animated Episode might as well be seen not as the first episode of a new show, but as the 80th of the Original. So much for the Clash's concept of comparing episodes that in the same position in the show's order. But it would be a little stretch, I admit. Maybe you guys could offer me your opinions on this.
Do you think including TAS would be "fair" considering the concept of this poll?
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
That, however, is not an option as it would mess up the whole idea of the Clash. Certainly one would expect the makers of TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT to have had a little more experience/finesse in crafting their, say 83rd episode than the TOS makers had in making their 4th. It wouldn't be fair. Besides, some TOs episodes might make it onto the list twice.
That, however, is not an option as it would mess up the whole idea of the Clash. Certainly one would expect the makers of TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT to have had a little more experience/finesse in crafting their, say 83rd episode than the TOS makers had in making their 4th. It wouldn't be fair. Besides, some TOs episodes might make it onto the list twice.
July 8 Results (Round 48)
For the first time in 16 rounds, VGR is victorious again. "Future's End, Part I" wins with 15 votes, just barely over "A Piece of the Action" with 14. TNG is third with just two votes for "The Ensigns of Command", followed by ENT's "First Flight" (1) and DS9's "Equilibrium" (no votes.)
For the first time in 16 rounds, VGR is victorious again. "Future's End, Part I" wins with 15 votes, just barely over "A Piece of the Action" with 14. TNG is third with just two votes for "The Ensigns of Command", followed by ENT's "First Flight" (1) and DS9's "Equilibrium" (no votes.)
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
RE: The idea of using TAS in the fourth season of the Clash:
I wouldn't mind it, but I'm not sure how well it would work. It has nothing to do with quality: Most of the episodes were more than good enough to compete. I just think too few members of this board have seen all of them. Also, if they're anything like me, it's been a long time since watching them.
RE: The idea of using TAS in the fourth season of the Clash:
I wouldn't mind it, but I'm not sure how well it would work. It has nothing to do with quality: Most of the episodes were more than good enough to compete. I just think too few members of this board have seen all of them. Also, if they're anything like me, it's been a long time since watching them.
Re: ***The Star Trek Episode Clash!*** The Results
^^^Yup, that's right. That's why I'm still hesitant to carve that in stone. There's still time to make that decision, but I'd sure love to include TAS, especially since the Clash! would be a lot less interesting without TOS (or TAS in this case) around.
^^^Yup, that's right. That's why I'm still hesitant to carve that in stone. There's still time to make that decision, but I'd sure love to include TAS, especially since the Clash! would be a lot less interesting without TOS (or TAS in this case) around.
July 15 Results (Round 49)
"The Survivors" takes the prize over "second Skin" in a relatively close battle (17:13). Third is "By Any Other Name" (4), fourth "Future's End, Part II" (3). The recent (and not so well-received) "Bounty" comes in last with no votes.
And now vote in Round 50 - the last Clash! before the summer break.
"The Survivors" takes the prize over "second Skin" in a relatively close battle (17:13). Third is "By Any Other Name" (4), fourth "Future's End, Part II" (3). The recent (and not so well-received) "Bounty" comes in last with no votes.
And now vote in Round 50 - the last Clash! before the summer break.
July 23 Results (Round 50)
Alright, last Clash for this season. "Who Watches The Watchers", TNG classic, is the winner with 14 votes. Second is the solid third-season episode of DS9, "The Abandoned", with 7, while "Return To Tomorrow", "Warlord" and "The Expanse" share third place with 3 votes each.
Here are the current standings:
Round 51 begins in early October!
Alright, last Clash for this season. "Who Watches The Watchers", TNG classic, is the winner with 14 votes. Second is the solid third-season episode of DS9, "The Abandoned", with 7, while "Return To Tomorrow", "Warlord" and "The Expanse" share third place with 3 votes each.
Here are the current standings:
Round 51 begins in early October!
The Clash! Year Three starts now!
^^^Yeah alright, so it's late October, but the good thing is: All of the competing episodes in Round 51 have had some time to settle in, so we can have a fair fight of the shows. Look for the new thread in GTD now!
^^^Yeah alright, so it's late October, but the good thing is: All of the competing episodes in Round 51 have had some time to settle in, so we can have a fair fight of the shows. Look for the new thread in GTD now!
