Agree with your entire post.
The Spore Drive Technology. What Do You Think About It?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
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I'm honestly hoping the spore drive malfunctions and takes the Discovery to a random spot and they get "lost" and leave the Klingon War story behind.
And they can't map a viable way home so they just keep "jumping" blindly. Every week. A new setting and a new adventure every week before jumping to a new wrong location in futile attempts to get home.
And that's the series. Star Trek Quantum Leap sounds better to me than Grimdark War Trek with this subspace mushroom network thingy.
And they can't map a viable way home so they just keep "jumping" blindly. Every week. A new setting and a new adventure every week before jumping to a new wrong location in futile attempts to get home.
And that's the series. Star Trek Quantum Leap sounds better to me than Grimdark War Trek with this subspace mushroom network thingy.
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I disagree, because that post is a total misread of TOS and Star Trek
The problem with a prequel series is that we know the parameters of what can and cannot occur from the perspective of interstellar politics. We know what's going to happen with the the big picture.
It's not the Spore Drive that's uninteresting -- it's the war with the Klingons.
We don't know what could or couldn't happen with these characters. And we don't know how the Spore Drive ultimately fails to become standard Starfleet practice. There are stories to be told there, even if you think the Spore Drive is eye-rolling silliness.
But the war really underpins the series more than serving as an interstellar backdrop. Everything is so influenced by the relationship between the Federation and Klingon Empire.....and we already know how that ends.
A prequel Star Trek series should be the opposite -- completely revolving around an ensemble cast and set *away* from major interstellar political events. They could even believably make a ship with advanced tech for it's era (i.e. upgrade the visuals) and send said ship on a top-secret exploratory mission "out there." Two birds with one stone.
But no.....interstellar politics and a magic spore network (??) that would make the Iconians jealous.
A Trek prequel series should be even more of a lone-ship exploration-based show with interesting and likable characters.
It's not the Spore Drive that's uninteresting -- it's the war with the Klingons.
We don't know what could or couldn't happen with these characters. And we don't know how the Spore Drive ultimately fails to become standard Starfleet practice. There are stories to be told there, even if you think the Spore Drive is eye-rolling silliness.
But the war really underpins the series more than serving as an interstellar backdrop. Everything is so influenced by the relationship between the Federation and Klingon Empire.....and we already know how that ends.
A prequel Star Trek series should be the opposite -- completely revolving around an ensemble cast and set *away* from major interstellar political events. They could even believably make a ship with advanced tech for it's era (i.e. upgrade the visuals) and send said ship on a top-secret exploratory mission "out there." Two birds with one stone.
But no.....interstellar politics and a magic spore network (??) that would make the Iconians jealous.
A Trek prequel series should be even more of a lone-ship exploration-based show with interesting and likable characters.
Interestingly, each time Starfleet has gotten into a war with the Klingon Empire, the Federation seems to be losing. The only time they seem to be on a real even footing is when we first meet the Klingon is "Errand of Mercy". The two sides are supposedly evenly matched and the Cold War the continues afterwards keeps the impression up until Praxis that a war would be evenly matched. But here in Discovery, the Federation seems to be in a bad spot. In the alternate reality were the USS Enterprise-C goes missing, the 20 or so years of war are going badly for the Federation and they are six months or so from defeat. In the other Federation-Klingon War started prior to the Dominion War, the Klingons seem to be driving the Federation rather hard for a year and a half before the Dominion enters the Alpha Quadrant and the Alliance is restored to take on the much greater threat.
So the question has to be asked....just how is the Klingon Empire held back for so long? Are their resources and population base that huge that they can take on the multi-species Federation and have a very real chance at defeating them? Are the Klingons that much more advanced compared to the Vulcans and Andorians? Did they badly stagnate and yet still are able to potentially defeat the Federation in the mid-late 24th century? Even with all the Federation's advancements?
So the question has to be asked....just how is the Klingon Empire held back for so long? Are their resources and population base that huge that they can take on the multi-species Federation and have a very real chance at defeating them? Are the Klingons that much more advanced compared to the Vulcans and Andorians? Did they badly stagnate and yet still are able to potentially defeat the Federation in the mid-late 24th century? Even with all the Federation's advancements?
It's about the journey, not the destination.
It's an ancient interstellar empire. They have probably conquered sizeable chunk of space over the centuries, so they have resources. Their weapons tech seems to be on par with the Federation (and in ENT they were clearly superior.) Also their culture is built around war and fighting, so war weariness will not be an issue.
I fully agree with you: It would have worked much better if Discovery had been set after DS9. Despite its flaws, we've already had a prequel: Enterprise. I believe we could also have seen some interesting guest stars...
However, to the topic at hand: The spore drive (the Displacement Activated Spore Hub Drive)/mycelium network/tardigrade pilot is an idiotic concept and coupled with the fact that it's so unlike Star Trek, I can't suspend disbelief. Sure, the spore drive technology will end up being not possible to research any further, but the reason why must be a very convincing one as I'm sure that the tardigrade can't possibly be the only way to exploit the mycelium network for travel and I can't just see Starfleet just dropping it never to be heard of again.
I hadn't heard about that hypothesis about the spore technology. Interesting...
Agreed. Spore drive is stupid..
Why would it have to be limited to the 25th Century? What difference does where in a fictional timeline a fictional piece of technology exists in? I'm constantly amazed how ridged in thinking so many Trek fans are. Never veering out of the lane of "continuity" or looking at things in a the big picture. Wed to the idea of the absence of a thing means it never existed, when so often it means the characters haven't mentioned yet or never had a reason too. Is it really so difficult to think that Federation scientists have been working on getting a functional Spore Drive running, with out the X-factor that prevented it's wide spread adoption in the 23rd Century, ever since it "failed" somewhere between DISCO and TOS?
At this point I expect them to have an interaction with the Big E and this to fly onto the screen:
I was just reading about that.
https://anas-tronaut.blogspot.com.es/2017/10/star-trek-discovery-tardigrades.html
EDIT: I see that what the Tartigrade Twister thread is about...
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tartigrade-twister.290768/
The idea is so out there for Star Trek that it does definitely make one wonder.
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Have to agree, it's an interesting concept, although I'm not sure why they picked fungal spores??? as the medium through which they could basically teleport. Seems a little bit dumb to me. Don't get me wrong, I have loved Star Trek since I started watching it as a kid back in the 70's. But I guess the fact that I'm now a doctor and actually did mycological research in my undergrad years kind of ruins the idea of Discovery's magical teleporting fungal spores. I think they could have come up with something a little bit more plausible, like they did in the other franchises: DS9, TNG, etc.. at least they based their ideas on actual quantum physics theories. Anyway, it doesn't matter, like you said, warp drive is what they use in the future, hence magic fungal travel will fail.
I was a little disappointed that a "transwarp" type drive would be based in a galactic bionetwork rather than more fundamental physics principals, though Stamets does note in E03 "At the quantum level, there is no difference between biology and physics. No difference at all."
And then in E06 he says re "SarekVision"
"I gotta say, this katra stuff is way cool.
An uncharted superhighway connecting all of consciousness and life?" I would relate that to quantum entanglement, where the idea of so-called non-locality implies connectedness across vast distances, even light-years with no time factor at all. This melding of spacetime and thought/consciousness is also related to the mind-based transport capabilities of TNG's Traveler - skills even human Wesley was able to start to work with.
My point being, that STD is quickly bringing up the complex and fundamental relationships between spacetime, thought, energy, and the concept of universal connectedness outside of time through a fundamental underlying medium, that of the very nature of existence.
Empty space, a pure vacuum, is not a nothingness at all, but is rather an everythingness, and has infinite so-called vacuum energy, with a "quantum foam" in which virtual matter / anti-matter particle pairs are constantly emerging, and recombining back into the vacuum. Indeed, when one of these particle pairs emerges from the vacuum at the event horizon of a black hole, one of the pair can get pulled into the black hole, while the other can escape, and this is the basis of "Hawking Radiation".
So Spore Drive is an experimental technology, and as STD develops, they are getting an ever-deeper understanding of these profound phenomena and their interrelationships, so "Spore Drive" may just be a starting point to more profound technologies for getting around the galaxy, and beyond. Using spores initially may in part be a plot device to help part of the audience unfamiliar with deeper more abstract physics, have something more physical to hold on to while coming to terms with the more abstract aspects.
And lastly, I would note that these ideas of a deep fundamental and time-free interconnectivity of all places, things, entities, and life, is not only an emerging concept in real-life and trek physics, but is something that has been appreciated and taught by mystics for thousands of years in Vedic and Eastern Wisdom Traditions. These ancient mystics or mind-consciousness-explorers, did not have modern tech or particle accelerators to explore the universe, but they did have their minds, and the ability to explore the universe from within at the deepest levels.
Albert Einstein first came to terms with his revolutionary concepts about the nature of light through thought experiments. And so like the mystics of old, he found the deep principles of the universe available from within his mind, because individual mind, and "cosmic mind", are inextricably linked, and some would say synonymous.
And then in E06 he says re "SarekVision"
"I gotta say, this katra stuff is way cool.
An uncharted superhighway connecting all of consciousness and life?" I would relate that to quantum entanglement, where the idea of so-called non-locality implies connectedness across vast distances, even light-years with no time factor at all. This melding of spacetime and thought/consciousness is also related to the mind-based transport capabilities of TNG's Traveler - skills even human Wesley was able to start to work with.
My point being, that STD is quickly bringing up the complex and fundamental relationships between spacetime, thought, energy, and the concept of universal connectedness outside of time through a fundamental underlying medium, that of the very nature of existence.
Empty space, a pure vacuum, is not a nothingness at all, but is rather an everythingness, and has infinite so-called vacuum energy, with a "quantum foam" in which virtual matter / anti-matter particle pairs are constantly emerging, and recombining back into the vacuum. Indeed, when one of these particle pairs emerges from the vacuum at the event horizon of a black hole, one of the pair can get pulled into the black hole, while the other can escape, and this is the basis of "Hawking Radiation".
So Spore Drive is an experimental technology, and as STD develops, they are getting an ever-deeper understanding of these profound phenomena and their interrelationships, so "Spore Drive" may just be a starting point to more profound technologies for getting around the galaxy, and beyond. Using spores initially may in part be a plot device to help part of the audience unfamiliar with deeper more abstract physics, have something more physical to hold on to while coming to terms with the more abstract aspects.
And lastly, I would note that these ideas of a deep fundamental and time-free interconnectivity of all places, things, entities, and life, is not only an emerging concept in real-life and trek physics, but is something that has been appreciated and taught by mystics for thousands of years in Vedic and Eastern Wisdom Traditions. These ancient mystics or mind-consciousness-explorers, did not have modern tech or particle accelerators to explore the universe, but they did have their minds, and the ability to explore the universe from within at the deepest levels.
Albert Einstein first came to terms with his revolutionary concepts about the nature of light through thought experiments. And so like the mystics of old, he found the deep principles of the universe available from within his mind, because individual mind, and "cosmic mind", are inextricably linked, and some would say synonymous.
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Wow I am now ready for some more shroom episodes. That was one Hella of an explanation. I still need however need this spore drive technology to just go away and maybe come back in the 28th or 29th century.
But hands down that was an awesome explanation.
Thank you.
New here...My two cents. The Spore Drive is interesting concept, but it is obvious that something major goes wrong. When Lt. Stamets sees two of himself in the mirror, and his above average "chipper" attitude Episode 7 "Lethe" it makes you wonder what's about to happen. My guess is F'ing with the Time/Space Continuum is not a great idea, and if the writers want to maintain some sort of continuity with the Star Trek franchise timeline they will fatally flaw it from being used in further episodes.
The Problem I have with this is minor.. You have almost all the Physics right, except a couple of points.. (Space is more like a Crystaline structure, and Vacuum energy is a product of virtual particles emerging and cancelling itself out with it's anti-matter particle copy)
However, I commend your thoughtful post, it is something I have been doing for the past 14 years in terms of relating the technology of Doctor who to actual physics. Spore Drive in STD is more explained by your posting here, then on the TV show, which bothers me because they throw something out there, and it's intelligent people like you and myself, who have to make sense of it and make it fit logically for us to appreciate it's believability in their stories.
It would be much better if such ideas and physics concepts were explained in part in the show, so like Previous Trek shows, there is a basis of physics being taught, which can inspire future scientists who are fans to grow up wanting to make such technologies a reality. There is no doubt previous Trek shows inspired many in the science fields today. It's not enough tho that the writers can say or throw out "They are down with the Science" and yet what they deliver is a half cocked idea, to whit fans have to then make sense of it, and try to get a semblance of realism and believability in the story and the tech being presented.
This is a common problem with Doctor Who.. which is a lot of physics and lots of problems that need very good thought and thinking outside of the box. As for the Vedic Texts, I have read all available. So much stuff! Tons of books. It was a slog, but worth it. I think the Ramayana is one of my favorites. And no one can NOT convince me that Mankind once had a very highly technical and super advanced civilization that was in collective community pockets around the earth, and they blew themselves up in ancient nuclear wars.. even the Apocalypse of James revelation in the Bible says the same, we have amnesia as a species, and the Vedic Texts definitely convince me of that. Scientists actually try to get gullable people to believe we were hunters and gatherers just as smart as we are today, but did that for over 200,000 years?? seriously? Only in the last 6,000 years did we invent things, and become smarter?? no, that's an arrogance and a bit of dodgy collective Butt covering for term papers and academic statures at work there. There is also new evidence that has come to light showing about 11,500 years ago, a comet hit North America, and melted the 2-3 miles of ice on impact and sent the world into a mini Ice age, which is when the last 6,000 years of human history picked up..
The Vedic Texts and probably some held in secret at the Vatican lifted and moved there after the burning of Alexandria tell the tales of human civilization before the Floods, and Ice Ages, among other cataclysms.
As for STD, I think the series should have been placed between DS9 and Voyager. It would have been a perfect place to set that series, or actually I prefer it being in the movie verse time frame, set just after the events in Star Trek II the Wrath of Khan. I loved those black and red uniforms..
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