Didn't miss anything? What about the story of
how Opaka comes back
the Eav'oq and Ascendants
Weyoun
The Soul Key
- Thread starter toughlittleship
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Didn't miss anything? What about the story of
I have to say I think a lot of the criticism here is legitimate. As far as I can tell the early DS9 relaunch books really set the standard for current Trek lit, and much of the rest of what I have read recently has had a very DS9-feel to it, as far as how it treats character development and exploits the political situation on a galactic scale. And yet, DS9 itself and its characters have been rather neglected.
The books just don't come out frequently enough, and the whole detour through the mirror universe just strikes me as odd. Granted, we haven't seen how it will tie in yet, but we've been treading water for some time now.
It's time to bring DS9 back up to speed and eventually reintegrate these characters into the rest of what's being done in Trek literature post-Destiny.
The books just don't come out frequently enough, and the whole detour through the mirror universe just strikes me as odd. Granted, we haven't seen how it will tie in yet, but we've been treading water for some time now.
It's time to bring DS9 back up to speed and eventually reintegrate these characters into the rest of what's being done in Trek literature post-Destiny.
Why?
And you know that's what Rising Son is about because...? Deranged Nasat pointed out several of the key things Rising Son does. Another thing it did, if you read it in conjunction with Mission: Gamma, was serve as a deliberate counterpoint to M:G by returning to some familiar Gamma Quadrant cultures, while in M:G the focus was on new ones. And it was Jake's trip that set a lot of things in motion for future books, much of it still unresolved. If you skip Rising Son, you aren't just missing a good story, you're missing the point of the relaunch.
Once again, why? The books aren't usually about crossover stuff. So what would be gained by arbitrarily moving DS9 forward a few years so it could deal with the storylines from other book series instead of dealing with its own stories?
Destiny had plenty of characters and places to cover. If DS9 had been included, it would have been too much. So aside from Destiny, what's so urgently important about having DS9 catch up with the other series? What difference would it make?
I'm not trying to give you in particular a hard time. I've seen a few people say the same thing, but they never say why it matters.
I think it's simply the fact that the DS9 characters and the DS9 story will tend to be marginalized if they are not involved with and contemporary to the main story.
It's not hard to see why people feel that may happen, since it already has happened. How many DS9 novels set post-series been published in the past two years? How far has the DS9 story advanced when compared to the main Star Trek story in that same period?
The mere fact that we can clearly identify a "main" story from which the vast majority of the DS9 characters and the station itself are entirely absent is a problem.
Because I really enjoy the tighter continuity between TNG, TTN, etc. I like that they are all affected by the events of things like Destiny and, one day the Typhon Pact. I would have liked have seen both Defiant (and Voyager for that matter) have a role (larger role in Voyager's case) in Destiny. I know Destiny was huge (and I LOVED it)...but I could have lived with it being a 4 or 5 parter (David Mack will probably read this and want to kill me).
BTW...how am I missing the "point" of the DS9 relaunch?
BTW...how am I missing the "point" of the DS9 relaunch?
Messed up my quotes. Apologies. Will try again below!
Ah, but that was due to unforeseen and unavoidable delays. Frustrating, certainly, but no-one's fault as far as I know.
I don't see it as a question of assigning blame. If the model for Trek lit going forward were that each crew would be in a isolated storyline, then we could say that the only problem has been delays.
However, that is only part of the problem. The model for Trek lit going forward seems to be a single over-arching story in which all of the crews are involved except DS9. That is a second and equally important problem.
Basically, to sum up as briefly as possible: most of the Trek books published will deal with the main story, from which DS9 alone is currently excluded. Ergo DS9 will be marginalized unless it is included.
Well, I cry over books reasonably often, so it doesn't have the same impact coming from me, but yes, it was a very moving book at times. Out of interest, may I ask which part?
When Stessi (sp) dies. 
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've cried in the last... ohh... 5, 6 years? Very cold. But that part was touching.
Umm, what about the Enterprise (no bloody A,B,C, D, or E), the NX-01, Vanguard, Stargazer, Enterprise B, or Excelsior?
Where did you get this idea?
Voyager as of Full Circle is
Going to the Delta Quadrant
Titan as of Over a Torrent Sea is
Back out exploring way out side of Federation space in the Beta Quadrant
Peter David usually does his own thing with regard to New Frontier so it's unlikely they'll have much to do with that either.
So this leaves TNG and the Aventine, the latter of which is captained by a major DS9 character.
I am aware that there are a near endless number of Trek spinoffs from different time periods, however, as far as ships staffed by crews from the DS9/TNG/Voyager television era, we are looking at Picard's Enterprise, Riker's Titan, and Voyager primarily (and the Aventine). Of these, DS9 was notably absent from the recent Destiny event and is not spinning off from it.
Virtually the entire crews from TNG and Voyager were represented, while only Dax was there from DS9. A second DS9 regular if you count Worf.
I may be wrong because I haven't had a chance to read the new Titan and Voyager novels yet (and I don't follow New Frontier), but Titan and Voyager are picking up where Destiny left off, and will be reintegrated into the main Trek story whenever they return, presumably following Typhoon Pact?
I realize that DS9 can exist on its own (like apparently New Frontier does), however that would be a major disappointment. These are major characters from a Trek tv series, for one thing. For another that tv series pioneered the type of galaxy-wide political and military intrigue that is currently being developed in the main Trek lit continuity. Furthermore, the early DS9 relaunch novels pretty much set the precedent for the kind of post-television series continuity that we can now enjoy across the board. Continuing as an isolated series would be very limiting in a number of ways, especially if it is constantly behind the main continuity (in time, because of delays).
Not that DS9 can't be brought up to speed with TNG/Voyager/Titan. I certainly hope it can, and that it will be. But I'd say there are legitimate reasons for concern, given how the DS9 story and characters have been neglected for quite some time now.
The problem with this is that even if DS9 had new novels THREE times a year every year starting with Warpath, it'd still be about 3 years behind where Destiny is. So the "delay" had/has nothing at all to do with DS9 being behind the other series.
So are you wanting them to skip over all those years of story telling just so it can be "caught up" with the rest? Or are you wanting them to publish books so fast that DS9 can still tell those stories AND catch up with the others? Because the former would remove what you said you liked about DS9 that being the good story telling the good continuity (because we know what all the other series did in that time frame not to mention they'd have to drop or really gloss over the current arcs). And the latter goes back to my other post about books aren't TV shows and can't be produced anywhere nearly that rapidly.
I understand there is a problem, as I believe I have been stating for some time now
The fact that we have seen one novel since Warpath certainly compounds the problem, though you are right there would probably be one anyway.
The fact that what little we have seen recently includes a rather bizarre and convulted twist involving the mirror universe doesn't really bode well either, in my view. It is certainly not the kind of thing you would do if you were attempting to maintain DS9's link to the larger Trek universe, or if you were interested in getting DS9 up to speed with the rest of continuity.
One thing I think is clear: it will be sad if DS9 reverts to being solely about local Bajoran affairs (so as to limit its scope as much as possible), and the main Trek lit continuity basically pretends there is a hole in space where DS9 should be
You know, all this talk of DS9's schedule has me wondering exacting what the publishing timeline of books in the series has been and what is yet to be.
Which books were released which years? Do we need KRAD's Amazo-list! skills?
(And while I'm thinking about it, when might Klag & the crew of the Gorkon be showing up again? Soon I hope.)
Which books were released which years? Do we need KRAD's Amazo-list! skills?
(And while I'm thinking about it, when might Klag & the crew of the Gorkon be showing up again? Soon I hope.)
Here you go:
Avatar, Books One and Two - May 2001
Abyss - July 2001
Demons of Air and Darkness - September 2001
"Horn and Ivory" - November 2001
Twilight - September 2002
This Gray Spirit - October 2002
Cathedral - October 2002
Lesser Evil - November 2002
Rising Son - January 2003
The Left Hand of Destiny, Book One - April 2003
The Left Hand of Destiny, Book Two - May 2003
Unity - November 2003
WoDS9, Book One - May 2004
WoDS9, Book Two - January 2005
WoDS9, Book Three - January 2005
Warpath - March 2006
Fearful Symmetry - June 2008
The Soul Key - July 2009
The Never-Ending Sacrifice - August 2009
I think it's worth taking a moment to reflect on the magnitude of the neglect in recent years. The DS9 relaunch has been allowed to atrophy beyond all recognition.
It began very strongly with Avatar (2 books, 2001), continued in Mission Gamma (4 books, 2002), came to basically what amounted to a season finale in Unity (2003), and then expanded outward from Bajor in Worlds of Deep Space Nine (3 books, 2004-2005). This post-series continuity was very successful from early on and is basically the precedent for what we are seeing now across in the board in TNG/Voyager/Titan/Destiny.
Since Worlds of Deep Space Nine, we have had Warpath (2006), which was actually reasonably good, I thought, but focused almost entirely on Elias Vaughn, a character who wasn't in the television series. Then we had a two-year wait for Fearful Symmetry, which focused on what basically amounts to back story for Ilianna Ghemor, insane ex-Cardassian sleeper agent and Kira doppleganger. 
Mostly this was cringe-worthy and anyway hardly advanced the main storyline in the slightest.
You have primary DS9 characters like Sisko, Kira and Odo who have been just sitting there since 2005
Really they haven't had that much to do since 2003, since the Worlds of DS9 books were more about providing panoramas of various cultures than advancing the story past Unity. These were table-setter stories. Well, the table has been set for more than four years now, I think it's time for the meal to be served
Meanwhile look what has happened elsewhere in Trek lit: you have DS9-inspired stories being told in a post-continuity format pioneered by the DS9 relaunch, except without DS9 and most of its characters
It's not as if the time gap is an insoluable problem, either. Dax seems to have blended in ok. Garak popped up as well. What happened to everybody else? Do the editors just have no idea where the DS9 story is going, and so no idea where these characters will end up? Might it be possible to sit down and figure this out?
In the words of Captain Sisko: "Something has to be done."
It began very strongly with Avatar (2 books, 2001), continued in Mission Gamma (4 books, 2002), came to basically what amounted to a season finale in Unity (2003), and then expanded outward from Bajor in Worlds of Deep Space Nine (3 books, 2004-2005). This post-series continuity was very successful from early on and is basically the precedent for what we are seeing now across in the board in TNG/Voyager/Titan/Destiny.
Since Worlds of Deep Space Nine, we have had Warpath (2006), which was actually reasonably good, I thought, but focused almost entirely on Elias Vaughn, a character who wasn't in the television series.
Then we had a two-year wait for Fearful Symmetry, which focused on what basically amounts to back story for Ilianna Ghemor, insane ex-Cardassian sleeper agent and Kira doppleganger. Mostly this was cringe-worthy and anyway hardly advanced the main storyline in the slightest.You have primary DS9 characters like Sisko, Kira and Odo who have been just sitting there since 2005
Really they haven't had that much to do since 2003, since the Worlds of DS9 books were more about providing panoramas of various cultures than advancing the story past Unity. These were table-setter stories. Well, the table has been set for more than four years now, I think it's time for the meal to be served Meanwhile look what has happened elsewhere in Trek lit: you have DS9-inspired stories being told in a post-continuity format pioneered by the DS9 relaunch, except without DS9 and most of its characters
It's not as if the time gap is an insoluable problem, either. Dax seems to have blended in ok. Garak popped up as well. What happened to everybody else? Do the editors just have no idea where the DS9 story is going, and so no idea where these characters will end up? Might it be possible to sit down and figure this out?
In the words of Captain Sisko: "Something has to be done."
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but is my favourite character on DS9, including the series regulars, and I say a lot of the other readers too, from the comments I've read here over the years.Since Worlds of Deep Space Nine, we have had Warpath (2006), which was actually reasonably good, I thought, but focused almost entirely on Elias Vaughn, a character who wasn't in the television series.
nope, I have no problem with Vaughn being the focus of a book or four.
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