The Son'a...after Insurrection

[The Borgified Corpse]

And it would be pretty weird if our heroes only sailed around doing cocktail parties, archaeological digs and courtesy calls to their android friends while their non-android friends were dying at the battlefronts. They didn't even mention the war in a single bit of dialogue! What are they, cowardly soldiers or heroically pacifist or people from some sort of a parallel universe or what?

Not to mention that the diplomats would have one hell of a time trying to speak with the Dominion if the war was still on. The last time diplomacy was attempted, in "Statistical Probabilities", it turned out that the enemy didn't really believe in it.

And while I can see Starfleet working with their former enemies, I cannot see them working with their current ones. It was no secret that the Son'a were on the Dominion side when this was mentioned in DS9. Rua'fo would have been shot at sight if he tried to approach the UFP before the war was over...

While the Son'a were producing Ketracel White for the Dominion, I suspect they weren't totally affiliated with the Dominion at this point. More likely, they'd signed some sort of wishy-washy non-aggression pact, much like the Romulans did. It was only sometime after the events of Insurrection that Son'a-Federation relations soured and the Son'a became more solidly on the Dominion side.

It was generally pretty sucky that there's so little evidence of the Enterprise, or any other sovereign-class ship for that matter, serving in the Dominion War. Rather than this glorified TV episode, I wish that Star Trek IX had been a Dominion War story.

Do they not give a stardate at all during Insurrection?

No. IIRC, Insurrection is the only movie that doesn't give a stardate.

In my personal timeline, Insurrection is set in the gap between the 6th & 7th seasons of DS9. This is one of the many random, detached duty assignments that Worf took during the period where he was trying to get over Jadzia's death.

 

[DarKush]

I think its set before the seventh season of DS9. Worf became the Federation ambassador to the Klingon Empire at the end of DS9. NEM takes place roughly three years after that, so there's a lot that could happen that could put him back in Starfleet. TrekLit is going on the assumption that Worf did go with Martok and in the "A Time To..." series figured out a way to shift him back to Starfleet.

Unfortunately INS wasn't a Dominion War movie but I just don't see a strong case for it occurring after the Dominion War. Personally I think that there was some loose tie at least between the Dominion and Son'a at the later stages of the war but perhaps not a full alliance like I write in my fanfic. I could see the Dominion needing an alternate source of ketracel white after perhaps losing production facilities during the war, and the Son'a who didn't return to Ba'ku might be pissed enough to sell it to them.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

I don't like it being set during the Dominion War.

Why are the Son'a asking the Federation for help with the Ba'ku when the Dominion would have taken the planet for them in exchange for ketracel white? Why is the Federation even worried about whatever fountain of youth might exist there when they're fighting the bloodiest war in decades? Why is the Federation dealing at all with someone who's currently supplying a vital resource to the force they're at war with? Afterward, sure, I could see the Federation working with a former enemy, but during the war?

I'm fine with assuming Worf's there for someone's birthday or something, or even because he requested the Enterprise to ferry him to a diplomatic summit, and the current security chief got sick so Worf offered to take some shifts.

Maybe there's just something I'm missing; I dunno. I haven't seen the movie in a while, so maybe I'm just being stupid. :/

 

[The Wormhole]

Why are the Son'a asking the Federation for help with the Ba'ku when the Dominion would have taken the planet for them in exchange for ketracel white?

A deleted scene explains the Son'a approached the Federation because the Briar Patch is well within Federation territory.

and the current security chief got sick so Worf offered to take some shifts.

The current security chief in the movie was Lt. Daniels, who we see quite frequently. In fact, he's even at the tactical station on the bridge when Picard gives Worf his wake-up call.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

Okay, then maybe Worf was covering Data's shifts after a diplomatic summit or something.

 

[Candlelight]

Number of references to ongoing fighting: zero.

From Memory Alpha:

As the four officers march down a corridor and into a turbolift, Riker breaks it to the captain: the Enterprise has been ordered to the Goren system to mediate a territorial dispute. Picard expresses his dissatisfaction, with the Federation embroiled in a bloody war with the Dominion, the Enterprise and her crew have been relegated to a diplomatic role. In that capacity, Picard and company are playing host to new protectorates, the Evora. "Can anyone remember," Picard wonders, "when we used to be explorers?"

 

[The Wormhole]

Okay, then maybe Worf was covering Data's shifts after a diplomatic summit or something.

Geordi was seen a few times at Data's ops station on the bridge.

 

[DarKush]

The way I see it the throwaway line about the Son'a in DS9 was a way to tie into the TNG movies. I made the assumption that the Son'a allied with the Dominion on some level after the events of INS. Personally I thought it was neat. I wished that TPTB had found a way to put a few Son'a ships in some of the battles and maybe threw a couple Son'a troops in there too.

Of course it wouldn't make sense for the Feds to ally with them during the war if they were openly allied to the Dominion. Riker had even expressed doubts about them and their ketracel white trade without the Dominion ties, so I know that wouldn't wash.

But I also remember how Picard ribbed Worf for waking up late. Picard said something like I don't know how they do things on DS9? If he was an ambassador by that time, would he still be on DS9? Also, why would Worf be in a Starfleet uniform, at his introduction, if he was not still in Starfleet?

 

[dHunter333]

"
I don't like it being set during the Dominion War.

Why are the Son'a asking the Federation for help with the Ba'ku when the Dominion would have taken the planet for them in exchange for ketracel white? Why is the Federation even worried about whatever fountain of youth might exist there when they're fighting the bloodiest war in decades? Why is the Federation dealing at all with someone who's currently supplying a vital resource to the force they're at war with? Afterward, sure, I could see the Federation working with a former enemy, but during the war?

I'm fine with assuming Worf's there for someone's birthday or something, or even because he requested the Enterprise to ferry him to a diplomatic summit, and the current security chief got sick so Worf offered to take some shifts.

Maybe there's just something I'm missing; I dunno. I haven't seen the movie in a while, so maybe I'm just being stupid. :/ "

no this is just one of many reasons the movie SUCKED


"The way I see it the throwaway line about the Son'a in DS9 was a way to tie into the TNG movies. I made the assumption that the Son'a allied with the Dominion on some level after the events of INS. Personally I thought it was neat."

my thoughts exactly...

 

[The Wormhole]

Actually, regarding why Worf was there. I remember in his first scene in the movie, Picard asks Worf what brings him to the Enterprise, and we hear Worf begin an explanation along the lines of "I was on assignment in the area..." So he was likely still in Starfleet, and not yet an ambassador.

 

[Elias Vaughn]

It could have been a diplomatic assignment.

 

[UssGlenn]

I think he says something about setting up defenses in the Manzar Colony before getting cut off. Can someone please just watch the scene?

 

[Candlelight]

I think he says something about setting up defenses in the Manzar Colony before getting cut off. Can someone please just watch the scene?

It sounds like:

"I was at the Manzar colony testing the <something> perimeter when I heard you were-"

 

[Timo]

From Memory Alpha: "...Picard expresses his dissatisfaction, with the Federation embroiled in a bloody war with the Dominion, the Enterprise and her crew have been relegated to a diplomatic role."

Of course, that's just Memory Alpha.

In the movie itself, Picard expresses this dissatisfaction because the diplomacy gets in the way of exploration, not because it would interfere with fighting back the forces of evil. So, zero references to ongoing war.

It sounds like:

TrekCore has a script version that is fairly true to the final, shot one - but the Worf dialogue still has the line about Dax there, and this wasn't included in the movie as filmed. In that script, this is what Worf and Picard say in the background as Riker has a chat with LaForge's comm voice in the foreground:

Worf: "I was at the Manzar colony, installing a new defense perimeter, when I heard the Enterprise was in this sector-"
Picard: "Stop by my quarters later; I have a few ideas about Manzar security. (to Riker, with reference to LaForge's hail) Have him come to the reception; we'll talk there."

Then there's this bit that was cut:

Picard: "How's your bride?"
Worf: "A challenge."
Picard: "Then you were made for each other."

Whether the first half is accurate for filmed movie dialogue, I dunno.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bones2]

^
Yeah, that's right. Script: http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/literature329/ins.txt

 

[JarodRussell]

Then there's this bit that was cut:

Picard: "How's your bride?"
Worf: "A challenge."
Picard: "Then you were made for each other."

Too bad it was cut. Good line.

 

[David cgc]

Unfortunately, it reads as being a little bitchy once we know it comes after she died.

 

[Timo]

...The stardate-free movie is basically so "temporally flexible" that it could in theory take place almost immediately after ST:FC, back while Jadzia Dax still lived. And back when she was still a "bride" and not a "wife", to boot. Any timepoint before "Call to Arms" would thus be fine - that is, any stardate between the 50890 of the preceding movie and the 50975 of the war-launching episode. Not a very wide range, that...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

...The stardate-free movie is basically so "temporally flexible" that it could in theory take place almost immediately after ST:FC, back while Jadzia Dax still lived. And back when she was still a "bride" and not a "wife", to boot. Any timepoint before "Call to Arms" would thus be fine - that is, any stardate between the 50890 of the preceding movie and the 50975 of the war-launching episode. Not a very wide range, that...

Timo Saloniemi

Actually, Insurrection would still have to be after You Are Cordially Invited. Simply because, in that episode we see the Starfleet officers attending the wedding wearing the old TNG-style dress uniform. While Insurrection introduced a new style of dress uniform.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, uniforms don't change overnight elsewhere in Trek. Some people used the second TNG style as late as "Tears of the Prophets", and the Admirals always seemed to be out of synch with the line officers. So we could argue that the dress uniforms of ST:INS hadn't yet permeated to the whole fleet - or that they were to be used in "civilian" parties only, including diplomatic occasions with foreign dignitaries, or private weddings.

Not that I'd seriously wish to place INS and FC back to back. Our heroes should probably take some time to recover from their Borg experience. And that experience might also help explain why the E-E wasn't shown in action anywhere in the Dominion war. Perhaps she was at dock the whole time, being carefully de-Borgified? It might be painstaking work, as even a small infection left untreated might regrow into something Starfleet definitely doesn't want to have in its battleships when they hit the front lines...

Timo Saloniemi