"The Ship's Stores will have it!"

[RapidNadion]

Hi, all:

Been thinking about this line recently (Tasha from "The Naked Now," drunkenly referring to some kind of negligee of Troi's or something), and it got me thinking about the ship's "store" or "stores." Do you think what Tasha was referring to was more in line with the modern military definition of "stores" (basically, a supply closet or warehouse) or the more familiar usage (a retail shop)?

I remember watching Data and Worf shop for a wedding gift for the O'Briens in "Data's Day," and thought then that we might be seeing a portion of the "ship's store." In the background, a young child is given a replicated teddy bear by his parents, so this seems to be the most likely visual evidence of the "general goods" theory.

Anyone have any similar thoughts? I've always wondered about how busy and social an atmosphere the ship's stores might be -- certainly, on the E-D, they have enough room for many such facilities, but this one is the only one seen.

 

[RAMA]

Hi, all:

Been thinking about this line recently (Tasha from "The Naked Now," drunkenly referring to some kind of negligee of Troi's or something), and it got me thinking about the ship's "store" or "stores." Do you think what Tasha was referring to was more in line with the modern military definition of "stores" (basically, a supply closet or warehouse) or the more familiar usage (a retail shop)?

I remember watching Data and Worf shop for a wedding gift for the O'Briens in "Data's Day," and thought then that we might be seeing a portion of the "ship's store." In the background, a young child is given a replicated teddy bear by his parents, so this seems to be the most likely visual evidence of the "general goods" theory.

Anyone have any similar thoughts? I've always wondered about how busy and social an atmosphere the ship's stores might be -- certainly, on the E-D, they have enough room for many such facilities, but this one is the only one seen.

Almost positive she was referring to "supplies", rather than a boutique!

RAMA

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

We actually saw the ship's stores in "Data's Day".

Worf shopping for a wedding gift.

This one?

That one?

Warriors hate shopping.

When Tasha first mentioned the ship's stores, which was also mentioned by Rand in "Charlie X", I imagined it to be like the mini-exchange on board an aircraft carrier that sells things like candy bars, magazines, and other sundries to the crew.

 

[Balok's Head]

Remember guys, this was the second episode. I think the idea of the Galaxy classs, at least at this point in time, was that it was a city in space. Families lived on the Enterprise, so I think that it was the writers intent to make a reference to possible Malls/shops on the Enterprise.

This idea may have changed a little as the series progressed, but back then..

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I wonder why any replicator in anyone's quarters couldn't do exactly what Worf was doing with what I assume is a replicator in that episode.

That area looks like a roomful of replicators, in fact.

Unless they mean to keep some control over how much energy/matter gets used up for this type of thing, so only the ones in that "store" can do absolutely anything.

 

[Timo]

I'd argue the ship carries a wide range of replicators, capable of different things. The ones in most cabins are optimized for producing food, probably consisting of coarsely patterned bulk plus some more detailed spicing, and would struggle to create a good-quality phaser. The Quartermaster's Dept controls units that are capable of providing much-needed everyday items, the Engineering Dept has machines dedicated to building detailed spares, the Medical Dept has special units for creating live tissue, and there's perhaps just one "industrial replicator" aboard that's capable of producing large and detailed stuff.

That is, the ship has bountiful resources, but not endless ones. So certain high quality replicators are provided for personal, frivorous use in limited quantity only, concentrated in specific rooms. The rooms may also feature "shopping aids", such as live or virtual clerks, idea generators, customizing software, or direct links to off-ship databases, none readily available at the average food replicator station.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Rob]

Remember guys, this was the second episode. I think the idea of the Galaxy classs, at least at this point in time, was that it was a city in space. Families lived on the Enterprise, so I think that it was the writers intent to make a reference to possible Malls/shops on the Enterprise.

This idea may have changed a little as the series progressed, but back then..

So maybe the Galaxy class ships all have a mini promenade like DS9? Maybe near Ten-Forward? Maybe that's where Mr. Mott's barber shop is.

 

[Timo]

To be sure, the Galaxy is big enough to have a dozen DS9 promenades in there - the big problem with space allocation in the saucer is that there's just too damn much available space! So, I'm all for malls, county fairs and the like aboard the E-D.

This just isn't readily evident because the images of DS9 and a Galaxy docked together have been filmed to funny scale. The DS9 model was designed so that the oval windows of the Promenade would match those visible on the outer walls of the central core - but at that scale, the E-D would not fit between the docking pylons at all! The station was essentially always shot at twice the originally intended size, or better, thus confusing the size relationship of e.g. the Promenade and the Galaxy saucer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[crohnie]

To be sure, the Galaxy is big enough to have a dozen DS9 promenades in there - the big problem with space allocation in the saucer is that there's just too damn much available space! So, I'm all for malls, county fairs and the like aboard the E-D.

This just isn't readily evident because the images of DS9 and a Galaxy docked together have been filmed to funny scale. The DS9 model was designed so that the oval windows of the Promenade would match those visible on the outer walls of the central core - but at that scale, the E-D would not fit between the docking pylons at all! The station was essentially always shot at twice the originally intended size, or better, thus confusing the size relationship of e.g. the Promenade and the Galaxy saucer.

Timo Saloniemi

So is DS9 supposed to be big enough to let the Ent dock? I'm a little confused now, especially since I've never gotten into DS9

I like the idea of certain kinds of replicators being able to make certain things and only a select few for "shopping". I think that makes the most sense in terms of energy usage, and even a big ship like the Ent-D has to conserve energy.

 

[RAMA]

We actually saw the ship's stores in "Data's Day".

Worf shopping for a wedding gift.

This one?

That one?

Warriors hate shopping.

When Tasha first mentioned the ship's stores, which was also mentioned by Rand in "Charlie X", I imagined it to be like the mini-exchange on board an aircraft carrier that sells things like candy bars, magazines, and other sundries to the crew.

Honestly they don't call the replicator rooms "stores". I'm pretty sure she meant "stores" as in where they keep supplies. They are probably cargo bays.

RAMA

 

[Praxius]

To be sure, the Galaxy is big enough to have a dozen DS9 promenades in there - the big problem with space allocation in the saucer is that there's just too damn much available space! So, I'm all for malls, county fairs and the like aboard the E-D.

This just isn't readily evident because the images of DS9 and a Galaxy docked together have been filmed to funny scale. The DS9 model was designed so that the oval windows of the Promenade would match those visible on the outer walls of the central core - but at that scale, the E-D would not fit between the docking pylons at all! The station was essentially always shot at twice the originally intended size, or better, thus confusing the size relationship of e.g. the Promenade and the Galaxy saucer.

Timo Saloniemi

The Enterprise D only held a little more then 1,000 people max, while DS9 held 7,000 people max.... to me, the scales seemed accurate between DS9 and Galaxy class ships that docked through various episodes and to suggest a Galaxy class starship could hold a "dozen promenades" is a tad bit of an exaggeration.

In regards to the shops on the Enterprise and replicators, as someone mentioned earlier, the replicators in the quarters were designed for food replication. They could be modified to replicate other things and could also be modified to be used as a mini-transport system, as explained in a couple of DS9 episodes. In one example in DS9, when Bashir was being questioned by Sloan, the crew was confined to their quarters and their replicators were disabled in case someone modified them to replicate a weapon or communications device.

The Shops imo were not so much as shops that you pay money for things, yet I also don't believe people could go in there and continually get anything they wanted anytime they wanted.

I suspect the stores operated much like how the Voyager crew had to deal with replicator rations, in that each person probably had a certain amount of credits each month they could use at the store to get what they want (which accumulated if not used) in order to prevent power drains on system resources.

So is DS9 supposed to be big enough to let the Ent dock? I'm a little confused now, especially since I've never gotten into DS9.....

I'd suggest checking DS9 out.... I originally was a big fan of TNG and took me a while to get into DS9, but honestly, I found DS9 more in depth then TNG in regards to character development and action.... I introduced my wife into DS9 just this year (whom always thought the typical thing, that Star Trek was a nerd show) and now she's hooked.

The Enterprise D was quite large, but could still dock easily with DS9, as shown in the first DS9 episode when the Enterprise was off loading new crew, but it has to dock at one of the upper pylons because of it's size and ship design.

 

[Praxius]

Crap, double post again.... my bad

 

[Timo]

to suggest a Galaxy class starship could hold a "dozen promenades" is a tad bit of an exaggeration.

Not really. Regardless of how big the station itself is, we can see with our own eyes how big the Promenade set is. The curving section built seems to represent a bit less than 1/3 of a full circle. And the diameter of that circle would be only about 40-50 meters; one could fit six or seven of those per each of the saucer's widest decks. Or then, say, one per each habitation deck, for the amusement of the locals.

(The actual Promenade is of course two decks high, Quark's is three decks, but even if all that had to be accomodated, a dozen would easily fit within the ship. Having just two or three of those would be helpful in filling the empty spaces that the Sternbach blueprints so abundantly feature...)

If we imagined that the Promenade somehow were twice as big, to match the doubled size of the station exterior, a Galaxy could still accommodate a dozen, albeit not quite as easily. That is, a "real" Galaxy could. (The Galaxy we see docked to the station seems to be a shrunken variant...) But that would mean that Sisko would be twice as tall as Picard!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatnertage]

To be sure, the Galaxy is big enough to have a dozen DS9 promenades in there - the big problem with space allocation in the saucer is that there's just too damn much available space! So, I'm all for malls, county fairs and the like aboard the E-D.

I've got absolutely no idea how big either one is supposed to be, but I LOVE the idea of a county fair somewhere on Picard's Enterprise. Maybe with a Tilt-a-Whirl and a chili cook-off. And don't forget the funnel cake stand.

 

[Genesis Does]

Is the technical manual canon? Maybe that could be of some help.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

Ed Whitefire's Enterprise-D blueprints (which were produced with Andy Probert's blessing) do have a large mall in the forward area of the saucer. But clearly what Tasha was referring to was some kind of storage area. The whole idea of replicators hadn't been clearly defined yet.

 

[Alrik]

I've got absolutely no idea how big either one is supposed to be, but I LOVE the idea of a county fair somewhere on Picard's Enterprise. Maybe with a Tilt-a-Whirl and a chili cook-off. And don't forget the funnel cake stand.

Think 'Mall of America' in Minnesota. Maybe the E-D even has a roller coaster.

But then again, with holodecks, what's the point?

 

[GeorgeKirk]

But then again, with holodecks, what's the point?

A "mall", whatever form it would take, would be a big open place for large numbers of crewpeople to gather and socialize. That's important. Sure, I know that 10-Forward is supposed to fulfill that need, but on a ship of 1000-plus people it's not very big.

 

[Hober Mallow]

to suggest a Galaxy class starship could hold a "dozen promenades" is a tad bit of an exaggeration.

Not really. Regardless of how big the station itself is, we can see with our own eyes how big the Promenade set is. The curving section built seems to represent a bit less than 1/3 of a full circle. And the diameter of that circle would be only about 40-50 meters; one could fit six or seven of those per each of the saucer's widest decks. Or then, say, one per each habitation deck, for the amusement of the locals.

(The actual Promenade is of course two decks high, Quark's is three decks, but even if all that had to be accomodated, a dozen would easily fit within the ship. Having just two or three of those would be helpful in filling the empty spaces that the Sternbach blueprints so abundantly feature...)

If we imagined that the Promenade somehow were twice as big, to match the doubled size of the station exterior, a Galaxy could still accommodate a dozen, albeit not quite as easily. That is, a "real" Galaxy could. (The Galaxy we see docked to the station seems to be a shrunken variant...) But that would mean that Sisko would be twice as tall as Picard!

Timo Saloniemi

The scale is definitely way off. Like you say, we can see how big the promenade is from the inside set. If you check out the scene from "Emissary" where we see the Ent docked at the station, the entire saucer looks little wider than the promenade, which is silly. The "giant" ten-forward windows on the E are miscroscopic compared to the supposedly smaller promenade windows, which appear much bigger in the exterior shots. The scale isn't just off, it's off by absurd proportions.

 

[Alrik]

A "mall", whatever form it would take, would be a big open place for large numbers of crewpeople to gather and socialize. That's important. Sure, I know that 10-Forward is supposed to fulfill that need, but on a ship of 1000-plus people it's not very big.

I hear what you are saying, and I don't disagree. Perhaps there is an area like that, that we've never seen from the outside. Maybe that is were the shops, barber shop and other things are located. There's no doubt that the E-D is more than big enough to handle something like that.

However, as to you other point, if you think about it, 10 Forward is plenty big enough for a crew of 1000. The reason I say that is because 10 Forward is just one of many off duty destinations. E-D seems to offers something for everyone. Sure 10 Forward might be the 'hot spot', but not everyone is going there on their down time. In Sarek, they showed an intimate performance hall. In Dark Page and a few others they showed the Arboretum. Frame of Mind had a theatre. We have seen variations of a gym that offers an area for Fencing and others for workouts. Hell, in The Icarus Factor, they even had an Anbo Jyutsu ring. Now add the holodecks, and its no wonder that Enterprise never looked very crowded.

And whats to say that 10 Forward is the only Bar and Grill on board. Maybe its just the one that the Bridge Crew and Transporter Chief prefer to hang out at. For all we know there could be the 'Last Chance Pub-n-Grub' at the aft bottom of the ship where most of the 'lower decks' type usually hang...of course with the exception of in 'Lower Deck' when they were actually in 10 Forward. Ya never know......but its fun to think about.