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The Seventh from ENT S2

Trekwatcher

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I was curious what others here thought about "The Seventh."

I have always felt that this episode could have been great and just missed the mark all around. The set up is very interesting, and Menos himself is well played by Bruce Davison, but I felt like there were a ton of problems with this show.

1) They find Menos way too easily
2) They catch Menos way too easily
3) T'pol's dilemma is too neat and clean
4) Mayweather is (again) not really given anything to do despite being included in the small landing party
5) The finale is too pat (they find the biotoxins)
6) The wrap up between Archer and T'Pol is flat and does not work.

I am a huge ENT fan, but for me this one just fell flat. Do others feel I am off the mark? Is this an episode that others like or dislike?
 
Trekwatcher said:
I was curious what others here thought about "The Seventh."
I've never been able to follow the episode, although it does appear to include an extended layover at Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport. For some reason the pre-season-four Vulcan episodes I just can't process.
 
I didn't care much for this episode.

-- A bad guy who is terminally boring.
-- T'Pol nearly coming unglued and needing Archer to push her to do her job.
-- Trip is kind of funny during dinner, trying to get in a bite of his meal while being repeatedly interrupted (tho' I notice that doesn't happen to Archer), but for God's sake, he can't make decisions that need to be made? And what's the deal with pretending to be Archer? Why doesn't he just say the captain is on an away mission? It's not like he owes the Vulcans any explanations.
-- Yup, Travis gets to drive the getaway car but otherwise has little to do.
-- Wish the conclusion had been a bit more ambiguous.


I give it an F.
 
I liked this episode, but agree with some of your criticisms.

1) They find Menos way too easily
Disagree. Finding Menos wasn't the "conflict" -- it was T'Pol facing her past and finding sympathy for Menos. Her identifying with Menos was one of the most interesting parts.

2) They catch Menos way too easily
Disagree. They didn't catch him until the last five to ten minutes.

3) T'pol's dilemma is too neat and clean
Agree there! The writers managed to make T'Pol the "I feel pain only once" gal. Pa'nar syndrome, fallora, trellium, Tolaris' mind f*ck -- she dealt with too many things that never impacted her and thus took away credibility and the ability to empathize and sympathize with the character.

4) Mayweather is (again) not really given anything to do despite being included in the small landing party
Agreed, but that's a long term issue.

5) The finale is too pat (they find the biotoxins)
Meh. What were the supposed to do?

6) The wrap up between Archer and T'Pol is flat and does not work.
Disagree. Archer was way too hard on her most of the episode, but I thought the wrap up was fantastic. Indeed, T'Pol didn't just learn from this one (although we never hear about it again, which mean she didn't really), but so did Archer.
 
"The Seventh" is on my personal list of ENT episodes not to watch again in whole. The only part that I enjoy is the approach to the icy planet and the scenes in the bar. The rest of the episode is either contrived, dumb, or both.
 
Smiley said:
"The Seventh" is on my personal list of ENT episodes not to watch again in whole. The only part that I enjoy is the approach to the icy planet and the scenes in the bar. The rest of the episode is either contrived, dumb, or both.

Totally agree.
They dumbed Trip down as Captain to make Archer look good. T'Pol is turned into a silly helpless female
Mayweather is just a cab driver
The guy who played Menos looked totally bored out of his skull as if he couldn't believe he was acting in such tripe
 
Hoshi's sis said:
Smiley said:
"The Seventh" is on my personal list of ENT episodes not to watch again in whole. The only part that I enjoy is the approach to the icy planet and the scenes in the bar. The rest of the episode is either contrived, dumb, or both.
Totally agree.
They dumbed Trip down as Captain to make Archer look good. T'Pol is turned into a silly helpless female
Mayweather is just a cab driver
The guy who played Menos looked totally bored out of his skull as if he couldn't believe he was acting in such tripe
And the sad thing is that Bruce Davison (Menos) is a very good actor. Too bad he had nothing to work with.
 
The only thing that stands out is the acid de-icing (or whatever) of the alien landing pad. Yeah, that's it.

Archer: "Haven't you heard of anti-freeze?"

Alien: "That's a bio-toxin!"
 
I didn't care for this episode the first time around. :shrugs: But it's been a while since I've seen it, so I've forgotten much about it.
 
they found menos pretty damn quick.
walk into the place and there he is.
get him into custody, he gets away and they get him again.

it would have been more interesting to have a sane tpol have to confront her past instead the falling apart at the seems creature that we saw.
it makes one wonder how sympathic a normal tpol would have been or rather her sympathy and menos ability to take advantage of it was a part of her seeming nervous breakdown.
 
2x07 – “The Seventh”
The seventh or so time T’Pol’s character is made into a weakling

After reading the reviews for this episode, I really wasn’t expecting all that much, and I can see now that I wasn’t disappointed. …Or, I was, depending on how you look at it.

Actually, had I not known a thing about this episode I might have thought this was another Evil Vulcans episode, but even still, right off the bat with the teaser it would be easy to sense just how contrived this episode was. Sure, it was meant to confuse us and to be dramatic, sort of revive the whole “T’Pol is a spy” thing. Turns out she was one, but given the way she acted I can’t really see why, or rather I can see why she isn’t anymore. Which just begs the question even more why the Vulcan High Command put her back on a 17 year old assignment that had had such an adverse affect on her psychology before? Coupled with their sour feelings we’ve been led to believe the VHC has about her over the P’Jem incident, staying on the human ship, etc, I have to wonder why they would have wanted her anywhere near a delegate operation like this. It just doesn’t make sense, it’s not “logical”. Why not send an active agent instead of one who couldn’t do the job 17 years ago? Oh, it’s a “matter of honor” we’re told, and “very Vulcan”. :rolleyes: Yeah right!

And so begins the weakening of T’Pol’s character, yet again, so Archer can be made to look better. :rolleyes: Though, my point about Archer’s abusiveness is made by his snootiness to her when she went to him for reasons I can’t possibly fathom. (As an aside I was rather amused when T’Pol asserted herself by blocking off Captain Asshole’s water polo game. :evil: ) While he is right to ask questions being as it is his ship and his equipment and his pilot, his attitude was wholly unjustified, and just came off as generally mocking. I guess this is a step up from his usual treatment of her, and he does behave himself for the most part for the rest of the episode, but I just don’t get why T’Pol would trust the man who has done so much wrong to her, everything from the P’Jem incident, to getting her raped and then letting the rapist go, to his daily treatment of her. Trust him? :wtf:

I guess you could almost say Super!Archer! made a return here, but it wasn’t quite as bad as that – aside from him being right all the time in this episode and having to constantly come to weakened T’Pol’s rescue all the time :rolleyes: there was nothing especially super about him in this episode.

Speaking once again about T’Pol’s character being weakened yet again, she acted pretty much completely out of character in this episode. Aside from acting schizophrenic and just generally being stupid and acting impulsively, she was very un-Vulcan in the way she recalled her story (“20 meters, perhaps 12”? :wtf: ), her mannerisms, etc. While I imagine the spook stuff was supposed to flesh out her character more, it just didn’t jive here and given the poor execution it completely failed. Having her remember what at first comes off as a rape, and turns out to be a voluntary memory erasure was degrading to her given that she actually has been raped (albeit mentally), and the implications are just as bad that she would even have to go through that procedure. It once again brings up the question of why the Vulcans put her back on this assignment. Furthermore, Senator Kelly’s (*cough* ;) ) story getting to T’Pol when Archer was able to see right through it further weakened her character in order to strengthen his, and the bit with the fire was just..ugh…better forgotten, but it does cry Super!Archer! in that he once again had to come to her rescue. :rolleyes: Later, Archer is proven right again when Senator Kelly turns out to be a bad guy after all. It’s pretty good that Archer has to remind T’Pol what her job is too, and then there’s that whole confession bit. :rolleyes:

I guess some plusses are that T’Pol’s presence on Risa is finally suitably explained, though I still shudder at the immaturity of that scene a few episodes back. I also liked Trip’s concern at his friends and shipmates being gone, and later on I liked his attempt at his own “captain’s mess” with Reed and Phlox. Unfortunately this was ruined in fairly short order.

It just really gets to me that Trip was made so inept at command, as if Archer is the only person capable of making decisions on the ship. :rolleyes: Not only does this make one wonder how exactly he’s an 0-5 in a command position (being Chief Engineer and all), but it’s totally contrary to how we’ve seen him handle being in command of the ship before. It was a foolish attempt at comedy relief at the cost of Trip’s character, and it was out of place given the drama surrounding T’Pol’s mission.

Anyway, I find this episode to be pointless, contrived, and thankfully easily forgettable. For as long as this review turned out to be, I really can’t work up the amount of anger that some others have for this episode. Maybe it’s because I’m too busy being pissed at work or something, but today I just feel somewhat apathetic towards this episode as well as the next one (which I just watched in case you were wondering). Anyway, only 1/10 for this episode.
 
Nice review, Captain X.

I thought The Seventh had a lot of potential, but they squandered it. I never cared much for 'unstable T'Pol', and this episode was pretty bad when it came to that. The guest actor was good though, as well as the planet/bar location.
 
Thanks.

For me, one of the lamest parts was when Archer literally had to coax T'Pol into shooting the guy with a phaser set on stun.
 
Guys, it wasn't about Menos or really even his capture. T'Pol had to find him and start interacting with him to discover part of who she is.

What worked between Archer and T'Pol is that she *trusted* him -- it's why she invited him along. I also think it was a new one for Archer who is beginning to realize that as a stinky human, he's needed. He and T'Pol have at the very least formed an amazing friendship based on absolute trust. Starts with Fallen Hero and this is just another stop on that journey. Notice, he's overcoming his sterotypes of Vulcans, too.

Story writing, when it's good, is always about the journey. And that's my biggest beef with the whole T'Pol never "gets better" or "learns lessons." This was a good story, but she doesn't think about this one again ... or the trellium, Tolaris, etc. That's also critical to character development.
 
No, it wasn't about Menos, I never said it was. I said it was about T'Pol's character being completely assassinated in order to make Archer look better.
 
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