The separating-saucer design

[Herkimer Jitty]

Voyager definitley doesn't have saucer sep, the MSD precludes seperation lines. The Constitution seperated at the interconnect between the saucer and neck, some say with clamps, others with explosive bolts. You can actually find some concept art for TMP depicting this by the fabulous Andy Probert.

 

[Forbin]

Has anyone wondered what it would have looked like for the NCC-1701 to have saucer separated?

Or VGR?

No, 'cause I see it every time I build a model of it.

 

[foxmulder710]

Has anyone wondered what it would have looked like for the NCC-1701 to have saucer separated?

Or VGR?

No, 'cause I see it every time I build a model of it.

LOL, indeed!

I used to have Micro Machine versions of the E-D and 1701, and while there was one of the former which saucer sep-ed on it's own, I ended up breaking one of the latter to make it saucer-sep.

 

[Maurice]

As Andy Probert could tell you, the ship wasn't originally designed to separate: that was a last minute request when Encounter at Farpoint was expanded to a two-hour premier and the saucer separation manuever was added. Andy had to figure out how to separate a design that wasn't s'posed to.

 

[Forbin]

Really? 'cause I'm pretty sure the model was designed to separate from the start, and it took a while to build.

 

[Maurice]

As Andy Probert could tell you, the ship wasn't originally designed to separate: that was a last minute request when Encounter at Farpoint was expanded to a two-hour premier and the saucer separation manuever was added. Andy had to figure out how to separate a design that wasn't s'posed to.

Really? 'cause I'm pretty sure the model was designed to separate from the start, and it took a while to build.

I said the ship wasn't originally designed to separate, not that the model wasn't built to. The design precedes the construction, and the design was altered when the separation requirement was added to Farpoint before the miniature was built.

 

[Timo]

How far along would the design process have been, then?

I don't think I have ever seen any art on a design that would already have featured basic detail (portholes and such) but would not yet have had the separation feature. All the designs depicted in The Continuing Mission, for example, are cleanly divided into preliminary or indeed unrelated coarse sketches, and designs based on the separation assumption.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

Time to conjur Rick Sternbach (Click your heels, spin around three times and chant: "Rick Sternbach, Rick Sternbach, Rick Sternbach").

Rick, was routine saucer sep always part of the plan for the 1701-D from the very conceptual beginning, or was it added after the ability was written into the script for Farpoint? Was the 1701-D model built before the pilot script was written, or after?

 

[Rick Sternbach]

Time to conjur Rick Sternbach (Click your heels, spin around three times and chant: "Rick Sternbach, Rick Sternbach, Rick Sternbach").

Rick, was routine saucer sep always part of the plan for the 1701-D from the very conceptual beginning, or was it added after the ability was written into the script for Farpoint? Was the 1701-D model built before the pilot script was written, or after?

It's really an Andy Probert question; I believe that sep was always in the plan, since I seem to recall seeing a couple of Andy's color sketches showing the two sections apart when I came on board, and the script was still in a very early form.

Rick

 

[Forbin]

Wow, that chant works!

(Thanks, Rick).

 

[Maurice]

The Art of Star Trek, page 72:

Though Andrew Probert had originally designed the new Enterprise as a single unit, the requirements of the pilot episode sent him back to the drawing board to devise an updated version of a scenario he had originally proposed for The Motion Picture.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

You can actually find some concept art for TMP depicting this by the fabulous Andy Probert.

Here and here, although I would hope that the NCC-1701 and her Refit are capable of "reversable" separation (i.e., sans explosive bolts) as I can imagine at least one scenario in the TOS/TAS/TMP epoch - emergency orbital maneuvering via tether and winch in the improbable event the ship lost warp, impulse and RCS - that would require saucer decoupling and reattachment.

TGT

 

[roguephoenix]

i think the reason the saucer can't warp is that it doens't have the engines nor does it have the deflector to enable it to warp. there were supposed to be static deflectors on the underside of the saucer but i think they were replaced with windows.

 

[Timo]

More like vice versa: the original Probert design didn't sweat saucer deflectors, but the TNG Tech Manual decided that some of Probert's windows had to be deflectors because the saucer couldn't do even limited warp without those.

Of course, on screen, the saucer is capable of more than "limited" warp. In "Encounter at Farpoint", it flies between stars just as nicely and easily as the battle section does, and in "Arsenal of Freedom", it sets on an interstellar journey without as much as asking for a warp boost from the battle section.

And it's not as if that sort of travel necessarily requires warp nacelles or visible deflectors. Most of the alien starships lack those, and many Starfleet ships lack the deflectors. So the saucer really looks like a fine warp vessel to me.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SoM]

The Art of Star Trek, page 72:

Though Andrew Probert had originally designed the new Enterprise as a single unit, the requirements of the pilot episode sent him back to the drawing board to devise an updated version of a scenario he had originally proposed for The Motion Picture.

Tyler: I saw on your web site a mention that the books The Art of Star Trek and The Continuing Mission by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens were good for photos, but contained a surprising amount of misinformation. What are some examples of misinformation in those books?

Probert: One example would be showing the Enterprise-D that I designed in its original proportions and the Enterprise with Gene's requested changes, whereby Gene asked me to LENGTHEN the engines and put the bridge on top from the center location. They have indicated that Gene wanted me to shorten the engines. That's one mistake. They indicated that the Ambassador-class two-page painting at the front of the book is an early version of the "D," which is wrong. There's mistake after mistake in that book, misquotes and so on. I get all sorts of credit for TMP design sketches I didn't do. If you don't see my name on it, I didn't do it. Just a few examples of an inability to write down what I'd indicated and not allowing me to correct it.

i.e., don't trust anything TAoST says unless backed up by an independent source.

 

[Plecostomus]

Wow, that chant works!

(Thanks, Rick).

I am in awe.

 

[Maurice]

i.e., don't trust anything TAoST says unless backed up by an independent source.

Neither do I. But I've seen Andy's sketches for the ship (heck, I've seen the original sketchbooks at his house). He's on this board. Why don't you ask him?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

More like vice versa: the original Probert design didn't sweat saucer deflectors, but the TNG Tech Manual decided that some of Probert's windows had to be deflectors because the saucer couldn't do even limited warp without those.

Perhaps Probert felt that the existing deflector grid would be sufficient protection for the saucer against both natural and artificial hazards after an emergency (was there ever any other kind?) separation. After all, why take mass, volume and complexity hits by doubling up on equipment when you don't really have to?

TGT

 

[FalTorPan]

The Stargazer from early TNG, the Reliant from TWOK, and the Grissom from TSFS all lack obvious navigational defectors. I see no reason why the Galaxy-class starship's saucer module would need them.

 

[comsol]

How far along would the design process have been, then?

I don't think I have ever seen any art on a design that would already have featured basic detail (portholes and such) but would not yet have had the separation feature. All the designs depicted in The Continuing Mission, for example, are cleanly divided into preliminary or indeed unrelated coarse sketches, and designs based on the separation assumption.

Timo Saloniemi

It was at least after the basic shape of the ship was conceived. I don't remember if there are any sketches of Andy Probert's original concept in The Continuing Mission or TAoST, but Starlog's Special Effects Photo Guidebook Vol . 5 does have one that shows the battle section as basically being a kind "arrowhead" shaped section that was the forward top half of the primary hull.