The Search for Plot - please help me!

[kkozoriz1]

Very true, however that does not change the fact that Spock's katra is asking why he was left behind. As Sarek says later, "One alive, one not, and both in pain". It would appear to me that Spock had some instructions for McCoy but for whatever reason the meld didn't work as well as he hoped. Perhaps he should have said "Remember really well" during the meld.

 

[Basill]

If you count this episode as in the same continuity as TSFS, then TSFS goes back to not making any sense.

We know the dead body is definitely needed for the ritual transfering the katra from the katra holder to the afterlife. The movie novelization implies that Spock, being half-human, didn't think he could transfer his katra to a holder (at the time he wrote his will), which is why his will specified that his body not be returned to Vulcan if he died in service of Starfleet, which is why Kirk launched Spock's dead body into space instead of following Starfleet regulation regarding the return of a dead Vulcan's body to the planet Vulcan.

If Spock had already transfered his katra to someone in TOS, then that totally unravels that explanation because if he had already done it then he would know he could do it. If he knew he could do it, then he would have willed his body to be returned to Vulcan, then it wouldn't have been launched into space, then it wouldn't have been regenerated on Genesis, then Spock would have stayed dead.

So if anyone's got another explanation as to why Spock's body was lauched into space after the katra transfer to McCoy that doesn't contradict "Return to Tomorrow", please post it. Otherwise, I'm just gonna delete RtT from my personal Star Trek continuity to allow TSFS to make sense.

I don't think it unravels at all. If you take into account that Spock's body wasn't actually dead in that episode, despite what Henoch might have believed. Spock (and Chapel) also had the experienced assistance of Sargon and Thalassa for all the musical-chairs mind transfers that eventually occurred.

This very experience might have been what prompted Spock to decide on his will as stated. If he found the experience particularly difficult he may have decided to spare anyone else the burden. His change of heart during the Genesis crisis may have been something akin to his Galileo 7 gamble.

 

[Whill]

Thank you. That is helpful rationizations and I appreciate your imput.

 

[Captrek]

Re: My Conclusions

Saavik was not raised on Vulcan and didn’t know anything about Vulcan death traditions.

If Saavik wasn’t raised as a Vulcan, what’s with the Vulcan logic stuff like “Humor is a difficult concept, it is not logical” and “This is not logical, these coordinates are deep inside a lifeless planet”?

While we’re talking about it, if the coordinates are so far beneath the surface, what’s the relevance of the planet’s lack of a natural ecosystem?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: My Conclusions

Saavik was not raised on Vulcan and didn’t know anything about Vulcan death traditions.

If Saavik wasn’t raised as a Vulcan, what’s with the Vulcan logic stuff like “Humor is a difficult concept, it is not logical” and “This is not logical, these coordinates are deep inside a lifeless planet”?

She wasn't raised "on Vulcan", but she has certainly been force fed lots of Vulcan heritage "as a Vulcan" by Spock, Sarek and Amanda since her rescue from Hellguard.

While we’re talking about it, if the coordinates are so far beneath the surface, what’s the relevance of the planet’s lack of a natural ecosystem?

They were examining the last coordinates entered into the transporter, expecting them to designate a region of the surface of uninhabitable Regula, a planet with no natural ecosystem. But the coordinates were bizarrely "deep inside", which is when they realize that there must be a cavern of some kind, perhaps capable of preserving life, but inside the planetoid. ie. the Genesis Cave.

 

[Whill]

Re: Saavik

Saavik was not raised on Vulcan and didn’t know anything about Vulcan death traditions.

If Saavik wasn’t raised as a Vulcan, what’s with the Vulcan logic stuff like “Humor is a difficult concept, it is not logical” and “This is not logical, these coordinates are deep inside a lifeless planet”?

I didn't say that Saavik wasn't raised as a Vulcan. The novelization states that she wasn't raised on Vulcan. You only quoted one statement meant to serve as a summary of a paragraph in previous post. Here's what that quote was referring to:

I’ll also add that although it as not revealed by the film, the novelizations states that Saavik is only half-Vulcan (and half-Romulan). She was 10-year-old orphan when she was rescued from an abandoned Romulan colony by Spock sometime in the years after the five-year mission of TOS. Spock made sure she was taken care of and sponsored her enrollment in Starfleet Academy. Despite the fact that she was trained in the Vulcan language and general (logical) way of life, she had never actually been to Vulcan before the end of TSFS and had not learned about Vulcan mysticism regarding death and afterlife...

I admit even that seems thin, but Saavik's half-Vulcan nature did actually originate in TWOK script although there is no mention of it in the final product of the movie. I think that he half-Romulan orphan backstory was included in the novelization of TWOK to explain why Saavik was crying at Spock's funeral (at the director's insistance because of the emotional impact it has on the scene - think about it - if a Vulcan is crying, then the death of Spock is really sad). Then, the same author used that backstory again in TSFS novelization to explain why Saavik hadn't questioned if Spock had transfered his katra to anyone or had wondered why Spock's body hadn't been returned to Vulcan.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Saavik

I think that he half-Romulan orphan backstory was included in the novelization of TWOK to explain why Saavik was crying at Spock's funeral (at the director's insistance because of the emotional impact it has on the scene - think about it - if a Vulcan is crying, then the death of Spock is really sad).

No, the backstory was expanded by Vonda McIntyre, from the one line in the shooting script where Spock tells Kirk that Saavik's half Romulan, to make Vonda's novelization more interesting, and to give some much-needed background to the characters of Peter Preston and Saavik, whom Vonda features heavily, in order to pad the story out to novel length. She certainly didn't do all that to explain away one tear in one scene of a movie that she didn't even see until after she turned in her manuscript. I just checked the script and the funeral scene says, of Saavik, only that she is watching attentively, along with Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and David, and that

"SAAVIK wears her hair down..."

No scripted mention of tears at all, so Vonda would have been oblivious to the director's choices.

The ShoWest presentation/long trailer is linked here:
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/2007/07/saavik-shes-half-romulan-jim-many-fans.html