The scientist planning to upload his brain to a COMPUTER

[RAMA]

Uploading in a few decades? That's an...optimistic viewpoint. Normal, ingrained-in-the-box thinking because of one opposing viewpoint? That's a...very narrow viewpoint.

The best science of course has ethical implications, but the best science is still done by scientists. Really.

If this story appeared in other sites, providing links is the proper thing to do.

Its not a treatise, but I always provide plenty of links. The story was carried on many major science news sites. Can't be so hard to find.

Yes, accelerated change would suggest it'll happen sooner than later. It's not optimistic at all. I used to think based on my reading it might be possible in 2040-2050..but now I think it'll happen well ahead of any mathematically derived Singularity date. Under the right circumstances and funding, i'd believe it was possible as early 2025, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

The European Union, for example, recently announced it was funding a $1.3 billion project to build a human brain on a silicon substrate. That’s about 1 1/2 cents per neuron. Swiss neuroscientist Henry Markham, who is behind the Human Brain Project, has already started work on building a simulated rat brain.

Here are some scientists working on it: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/scientists-are-convinced-mind-transfer-is-the-key-to-immortality

Michio again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97rySURIS2M

AI expert Ben Goertzel countering objections to mind uploading(Ive posted this before).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZChqb_VldA

You should get the book I posted. Lot's more scientists cited.

Ultimately, it's not the technicalities that people are up in arms against, it's the philosophy.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BelOkx4Jxyg


Another related item to what I said, this great video by AI expert Ben Geortzel: "Nine years to a Singularity if we really, really try".

 

[RAMA]

RAMA's posts certainly contain a certain quasi-religious enthusiasm.

I'm convinced that within my lifetime there will be a mind upload cult that commits suicide trying to upload themselves.

If we're lucky, might just get rid of a few of them.

Typical close-minded, childlike response. Must be those damn ponies again.

RAMA

 

[{ Emilia }]

The European Union, for example, recently announced it was funding a $1.3 billion project to build a human brain on a silicon substrate.

To be fair it would also make sense to mention that there's significant criticism.

Quote:

"The main apparent goal of building the capacity to construct a larger-scale simulation of the human brain is radically premature," Peter Dayan, director of the computational neuroscience unit at UCL, told the Guardian.

"We are left with a project that can't but fail from a scientific perspective. It is a waste of money, it will suck out funds from valuable neuroscience research, and would leave the public, who fund this work, justifiably upset," he said.

I'm convinced that within my lifetime there will be a mind upload cult that commits suicide trying to upload themselves.

If we're lucky, might just get rid of a few of them.

Typical close-minded, childlike response. Must be those damn ponies again.

You guys... so angry! Relax.

 

[Kemaiku]

Of the two of us, which adult is claiming that essentially next week we'll have home made computer brains on the shelves we can just pop our existing minds into without any problems?

I'm sorry but that's so idiotically stupid it's laughable. By all means let him believe in his own version of the rapture, but we've been over this, and lets just call it what it is, bullshit too many times already.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Of the two of us, which adult is claiming that essentially next week we'll have home made computer brains on the shelves we can just pop our existing minds into without any problems?

I'm sorry but that's so idiotically stupid it's laughable. By all means let him believe in his own version of the rapture, but we've been over this, and lets just call it what it is, bullshit too many times already.

I don't think it's impossible, it's just unlikely for the near future. We just don't have the capacity to do it now. But in a few decades, who knows. We can already transmit thoughts from one brain to another over the internet using a device you just keep on your head. If we continue to develop it, in a few years we may send thoughts instead of emails. It's completely nuts, but so was the idea that we'd all carry around small computers that are constantly connected to the largest collection of human knowledge throughout history and it's slowly killing off radio, television and film as an industry.

I don't think we'll all be uploaded to the cloud any time soon, but I don't dismiss it as completely impossible.

 

[Kemaiku]

The time scale is one of the main issues with all these links though, they all claim near perfect transfers are within decades from now, I seriously doubt it'll be happening a century from now.

 

[Santaman]

You can't upload anything to a computer, even if you manage to copy anything you will end up with dead data not with a "person" inside a computer since you seem to forget that everything of the human body is interconnected, everything is needed to form a human being.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The time scale is one of the main issues with all these links though, they all claim near perfect transfers are within decades from now, I seriously doubt it'll be happening a century from now.

I think most of it is based on processor speed doubling every 18 months, which will eventually be roughly equal in speed to the human brain. I think most of those predictions have it happening in the next 10-20 years. I don't think it will happen as quickly as that. We still don't fully understand what it is in our brain that makes me me and you you. But none of us know the future, so just dismissing it as being impossible is foolish. But so is formatting your hard drive to make room for your brain.

 

[Amaris]

You can't upload anything to a computer, even if you manage to copy anything you will end up with dead data not with a "person" inside a computer since you seem to forget that everything of the human body is interconnected, everything is needed to form a human being.

This. It would be the equivalent of uploading a 3D object into a 2D environment.

 

[Kemaiku]

You can't upload anything to a computer, even if you manage to copy anything you will end up with dead data not with a "person" inside a computer since you seem to forget that everything of the human body is interconnected, everything is needed to form a human being.

This. It would be the equivalent of uploading a 3D object into a 2D environment.

Yup, you would have a machine that would in essence emulate what data you gave it, but it wouldn't be self aware. The person would die from having the neurons in their brain collectively attacked by whatever mechanism attempted to extract the information or probe/read them.

 

[Metryq]

Some have suggested that the mind might be to the brain what a TV show is to a television set. If that were so, "uploading oneself" to a computer might accomplish less than taking a photo of a person's body.

Assuming a "snapshot" of the brain did capture the essence of a personality, it would still be pointless without a "virtual machine" or other emulator to run it.

(In "Farewell to the Master" Gnut wasn't successful at reviving Klaatu from recordings of him.)

 

[Awesome Possum]

Some have suggested that the mind might be to the brain what a TV show is to a television set. If that were so, "uploading oneself" to a computer might accomplish less than taking a photo of a person's body.

Assuming a "snapshot" of the brain did capture the essence of a personality, it would still be pointless without a "virtual machine" or other emulator to run it.

(In "Farewell to the Master" Gnut wasn't successful at reviving Klaatu from recordings of him.)

I'm actually writing a story where part of the plot involves mind uploading. It goes with the idea that the brain is more or less an antenna for the mind. Once a brain reaches a certain point, it is capable of self-awareness. It's a physical property of it. Since the structure of every brain is different, each mind is different. Even minor damage can affect it. But if the brain can be recreated perfectly, then so can the mind. It does get a bit weird in my story when there are two identical brains at the same time.

 

[Metryq]

It goes with the idea that the brain is more or less an antenna for the mind. Once a brain reaches a certain point, it is capable of self-awareness.

That doesn't make sense—but then, I haven't read your story. If a brain were an antenna, how could it become self-aware "at a certain point"? Would a radio antenna become the musician creating the music at a certain point? Or perhaps your story brain is like ferrous metal picking up magnetism?

(I'm not endorsing the "brain is an antenna" or an entire receiver idea. It is merely something I've run into, and the author had various arguments to back up the idea. It still gets us no closer to understanding how mind is associated with matter. And those who believe the brain is "simply" a computer are shortchanging intelligence.)

 

[RAMA]

Of the two of us, which adult is claiming that essentially next week we'll have home made computer brains on the shelves we can just pop our existing minds into without any problems?

I'm sorry but that's so idiotically stupid it's laughable. By all means let him believe in his own version of the rapture, but we've been over this, and lets just call it what it is, bullshit too many times already.

I'm willing to believe you just don't accept the premises involved, which lead to your trite responses. You seem to mainly have a problem with the concept of accelerated/exponential change. It's NOT intuitive, and goes against human experience and lifespans where things in front of us change somewhat slowly, our memory is historical, not direct in most cases.

Instead of articles (which you don't seem to read) there's a video focusing on exponential financial thinking but also goes broader than that.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLFoMNzD_k[/yt]

Peter's credentials:

1. Peter Diamandis
   Engineer
2. Peter H. Diamandis is a Greek-American engineer, physician, and entrepreneur best known for being the founder and chairman of the X PRIZE Foundation, the co-founder and chairman of Singularity University ... Wikipedia
3. Born: May 20, 1961 (age 53), The Bronx, New York City, NY
4. Books: Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think
5. Movies: Mojave Magic: A Turtle's Eye View of SpaceShipOne
6. Education: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard University, Harvard Medical School
7. Nominations: Goodreads Choice Awards Best Nonfiction

 

[JES]

Then again, even if you could upload your mind to a computer, who'd actually want to, when for all you know, the money to build a new body runs out, and your trapped, with no way to eat, drink, or otherwise enjoy your new immortality.
In other words, you'd be sort of imprisoned, and be completely dependent on people maintaining the computer and servers, because if they crash, this time, you die for good.

Why would you eat and drink if you were uploaded? There's more to life than just food, especially if you were digital and no longer had any need to eat or drink. You could spend the rest eternity recreating Tron and never stop for a break since you would never get tired.

Personally I'd upload myself if I got the chance. Everybody dies, but having a back-up of yourself would be great. Why would anyone even be bothered by the idea?

Well, I happen to like the sensation of taste.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I'm willing to believe you just don't accept the premises involved, which lead to your trite responses. You seem to mainly have a problem with the concept of accelerated/exponential change. It's NOT intuitive, and goes against human experience...

Not to mention physically impossible...

Not that transphysicists would mind.

 

[Ronald Held]

Could you backup a brain and in the future reload it back?

 

[Kemaiku]

I'm willing to believe...

Any bullshit people tell you that appeals to your own vanity and ignorance.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It goes with the idea that the brain is more or less an antenna for the mind. Once a brain reaches a certain point, it is capable of self-awareness.

That doesn't make sense—but then, I haven't read your story. If a brain were an antenna, how could it become self-aware "at a certain point"? Would a radio antenna become the musician creating the music at a certain point? Or perhaps your story brain is like ferrous metal picking up magnetism?

(I'm not endorsing the "brain is an antenna" or an entire receiver idea. It is merely something I've run into, and the author had various arguments to back up the idea. It still gets us no closer to understanding how mind is associated with matter. And those who believe the brain is "simply" a computer are shortchanging intelligence.)

I mean as it develops. A newborn wouldn't be self-aware, but after growing they would be. Also most animals wouldn't be either.

But it isn't exactly trying to be hard science since at one point I have a character who turned their car into a spaceship after getting the idea from The Last Starfighter.