The safety of Transporters.. Tmp and more.

[valkyrie013]

So, watching TMP for the 1147th time, a thought hit me, How did the transporter accident happen?

So, from my thinking when your beaming from a platform to another platform that you beam from your system to the receiving system, and materialize in the receiving platform. At the time of the accident, the Enterprise's system wasn't working properly, now, earlier in the movie, Kirk probably tried to beam up the Enterprise but was told by the operator that there system wasn't working, so he beamed up to the Orbital Complex, and took the scenic route over.
Now, when the 2 that beamed up, why didn't the operator know about it? with Sonak I would guess that he was using the same pad that Kirk used not an hour ago.
Even if it was a different pad/operator, when calling up the coordinates for the Enterprise, they would find that the system wasn't working, Kind of like a Maintenance Lockout of an Elevator that's being repaired. And even if the operator didn't see it, that the Enterprise's system would be locked down and not accept incoming beams, and be bounced back to the sender's platform. Basically there would be a big giant STOP Sign that told the sending platform that its not accepting incoming transports.
That they were sent and died to me is a BIG screw up of probably multiple safety features of the system

Now I'm opening this thread to any an all transporter safety topics, from how in Enterprise one person had Twigs in his skin when he beamed up, to 32nd century technology ( Still 6 months since discovery, so please use "Spoiler" tag if wanting to talk about that. ) and to discussions of how it might happen in real life, quantum teleporters, Dimensional Slides, Gateways, etc.

So Thoughts?

 

[Timo]

I'd think the system was fine most of the time, and specifically soon after Kirk's arrival because Scotty's pride had been hurt by Kirk's complaints. It's just that it, and a dozen other things, kept breaking down again every now and then despite (or because of) the hasty repairs.

When Decker supervises another repair or assembly job and Kirk comes down to distract him with his "De-moted you, nyah, nyah!", something blows up again. But since Decker has been distracted, he hasn't taken proper care of telling the transporter operators that the current set of repairs and failures is messing up with that system - so when the beam-up begins, Rand thinks the system is shipshape. Just like it was twenty seconds earlier.

What shows up on a transporter operator's board isn't likely to cover all the things that could go wrong on a starship. And in an attempt to make the ship launch well ahead of schedule, integration would be the first thing to be postponed until the triumphant return. It should suffice that each component work separately. Although of course it doesn't.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Coops]

Intended or not, I always thought that was a good scene to alert the viewer that, hey, this space exploration thing is still a dangerous proposition. "Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

 

[Oddish]

Consider what a transporter has to do... convert every molecule of a person into energy, and then reassemble them so precisely that even the energy patterns in their brain are identical.

It's amazing that it works at all.
It's even more amazing that it works as often as it does.
And that people routinely rely on it.

 

[Timo]

Probably it doesn't need to do quite that, though. That is, turning folks into energy, while a capacity, is a special case warranting special comment in the likes of "Lonely Among Us". Regular ops apparently involve some other technique that hopefully calls for less juggling of data or energy. Probably molecule A just minds where molecule B is going and B minds A, just like they always do in the regular mode of existence; little is left for the machine to mind, as opposed to the scenario where the machine would herd all the gadzillion particles let loose by the famed "energizing".

The transporter in TOS is a hundred years old even if we only count from the day humans started using it on people (and ignore other UFP members who might have been using it for that purpose for thousands of years already). Humans today routinely rely on things a century old, such as cars, elevators or aircraft...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shawnster]

VOICES [OC]: Check. Cleary on number six.
Space matrix restoration coils. Dilithium crystals.
I knew it. The transporter sensor was not activated.
Faulty modules.
SCOTT [OC]: Cleary! Put a new backup sensor into the unit.
CLEARY [OC]: Aye sir.


Looks like they thought they had the problem fixed. So they told Starfleet Operations that their transporter was back in operation.

 

[Oddish]

This is why I thought it was a bad idea for them to actually be relying on transporters in "Enterprise". Either they should have used shuttles, or if they had to beam someone, make it an unreliable and highly dangerous process.

 

[darrenjl]

Just as fatal accidents occur today with elevators and escalators, albeit extremely rare considering their daily global usage, it can simply be down to human error.

Enterprise showed transporter technology as being rather too advanced and 'speedy'. Obviously it had be for the show, but I always wondered if they would try and explain this away somehow; a potential storyline could have been it is found the transporter as is is degrading something on the cellular level that hadn't been seen before- akin to how asbestos was never seen as dangerous- and they had to completely redesign the transporter sequence, resulting in it being a lot slower, but safer.

 

[Henoch]

Looks like they thought they had the problem fixed. So they told Starfleet Operations that their transporter was back in operation.

KIRK: Why aren't the Enterprise transporters operating, Mister Scott?
SCOTT: A wee problem, sir, really. Just temporary. Admiral, we have just spent eighteen months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise. How in the name of hell do they expect to have her ready in twelve hours?

[Enterprise engineering]

VOICES [OC]: Check. Cleary on number six.
Space matrix restoration coils. Dilithium crystals.
I knew it. The transporter sensor was not activated.
Faulty modules.
SCOTT [OC]: Cleary! Put a new backup sensor into the unit.
CLEARY [OC]: Aye sir.
DECKER: Admiral Kirk! ...We're getting a top brass send off? Don't worry, she'll launch on schedule if we have to tow her out with our bare hands. Right, Scotty?
SCOTT: Aye, yes, that we will, sir.
KIRK: Let's talk.
DECKER: Sure. Let me now when the backup's ready.
SCOTT: Aye sir.
DECKER: With all due respect, sir, I hope this isn't some kind of Starfleet pep talk, I'm really too busy.
KIRK: I'm taking over the center seat, Will.
DECKER: You're what?
KIRK: I'm replacing you as Captain of the Enterprise. You'll stay on as Executive Officer. Temporary grade reduction to Commander.
DECKER: You personally, are assuming command?
KIRK: Yeah.
DECKER: May I ask? Why?
KIRK: My experience, five years out there dealing with unknowns like this, my familiarity with the Enterprise, this crew.
DECKER: Admiral, this is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don't know her a tenth as well as I do.
KIRK: That's why you're staying aboard. I'm sorry,
DECKER: No, Admiral. I don't think you are, not one damn bit. I remember when you recommended me for this command. You told me how envious you were, and how much you hoped you'd find a way to get a starship command again. Well, it looks like you found a way.
KIRK: Report to the bridge, Commander. Immediately.
DECKER: Aye sir.
CLEARY: Transporter room, come in! Urgent! Redline on the transporters, Mister Scott!
SCOTT: Transporter room, do not engage! Do not...
CLEARY: It's too late. They're beaming now!

[Enterprise transporter room]

RAND: Do you read me Starfleet? Override us. Pull them back!
STARFLEET [OC]: Unable to receive their pattern, Enterprise.
KIRK: Give it to me. Starfleet, boost your matter gain, we need more signal! ...More signal!
SCOTT: We're losing their pattern.
RAND: Oh, no! They're forming!
WOMAN: (a scream)
SONAK: (a moan)
KIRK: Starfleet, do you have them?
STARFLEET [OC]: Enterprise, ...what we got back didn't live long, ...fortunately.
KIRK: Starfleet, ...Kirk. Please ...express my condolences to their families. Commander Sonak's can be reached through the Vulcan Embassy. There was nothing you could have done, Rand. It wasn't your fault.

Scott knew that the transporter were out, and Starfleet was aware of this condition at the start of the scene. Working with Decker, Scotty ordered Cleary to replace the backup sensor, and Scotty was to get back with Decker (the senior officer). At the same time, Decker got distracted by Kirk and never got back with Scotty. Starfleet thought the Enterprise's transporters were now operational and beamed two people to the Enterprise's transporter system which was still not fixed. Did Cleary replace the sensor, then Scotty gave the "all clear" to the transporter room without getting with Decker to find out whether they really fixed the system because he saw Decker engaged with Kirk and knew the topic of their discussion?

I hate to think it, but it was Scotty's fault.

 

[trekshark]

from how in Enterprise one person had Twigs in his skin when he beamed up,

I always liked that, showed that most of their tech was still new unlike later trek where it was just a given that it'd work
similarly in trek set it later time frames we saw the transporter protect them from getting shot but it didn't protect Hayes

 

[Kor]

Transporter use probably goes just fine 99.99999999% of the time. It's that minuscule percentage of freak accidents that warrant our attention as viewers for the purposes of TV/cinematic drama. It's like how a bad pileup on the freeway might make the evening news, but all the uneventful normal traffic the rest of the time doesn't.

Kor

 

[valkyrie013]

I remember in TNG that they're doing a flyby when they transported and they said they felt like they were in the wall and so.eone said that yeah for a half a second you were.

If I remember the books for Enterprise was that there were problems with the transporter and that Archer and Reed ended up Sterile or something like that.
But I agree the transporter in Enterprise should have been a rare use or someone like good for cargo and an emergency they beamed Archer or somebody up and there was problems.
That they were in the process of human rating it, but not quite there. The Enterprise transporter was "experimental"

 

[Nerys Myk]

This is why I thought it was a bad idea for them to actually be relying on transporters in "Enterprise". Either they should have used shuttles, or if they had to beam someone, make it an unreliable and highly dangerous process.

As I recall, they used shuttles (shuttle pods) a lot at the start of Enterprise and the transporter was seen as a new tech without all the bugs worked out.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If I remember the books for Enterprise was that there were problems with the transporter and that Archer and Reed ended up Sterile or something like that.

Sucks to be the entire Kelvin universe Enterprise crew going through that old USS Franklin cargo transporter

 

[Timo]

Yet changing a "cargo transporter" into a "people transporter" apparently only calls for a certificate with a signature or stamp on it. You don't have to push special buttons, let alone change the transmuter coil or the focusing frammistat.

Scotty is rightfully worried about the quality of a machine that was never built to handle people specifically. But most non-manrated rockets fly straight today. And the concept of a special "cargo transporter" doesn't really exist in Trek: all those unusual-looking contraptions seen in the cargo holds are also seen moving people at some point, without modifications. Heck, you can even stow away in a batch of cargo containers!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

Today we have plenty of equipment that tells say via a red light that this system is not working, so perhaps on the transporter console there was a light indicating the system was not operational, the sensor module is replaced and the light goes off indicating the system is now operational. So they begin using it again (seemingly without testing it first). We get another failure the moment they start using it.

There's plenty of blame to go around, due to the emergency they brought forward her launch forward likely months, never mind the fact that Sonak say's they'll need a minimum of twenty hours and Kirk say's you've got twelve. When things are rushed more mistakes tend to be made.

 

[MacLeod]

I remember in TNG that they're doing a flyby when they transported and they said they felt like they were in the wall and so.eone said that yeah for a half a second you were.

If I remember the books for Enterprise was that there were problems with the transporter and that Archer and Reed ended up Sterile or something like that.
But I agree the transporter in Enterprise should have been a rare use or someone like good for cargo and an emergency they beamed Archer or somebody up and there was problems.
That they were in the process of human rating it, but not quite there. The Enterprise transporter was "experimental"

Nope it had been approved for bio-transport from "Broken Bow"

TRAVIS: I've heard this platform's been approved for bio-transport
REED: I presume you mean fruits and vegetables.
TRAVIS: I Mean Armoury Officers and Helmsmen.

 

[Timo]

Might still be that it's an experiment they are running on the crew. And might still be it turns out users go sterile after a couple of times, and get worse after a dozen. It's just that none of this would be evident during the run of the show.

What's sorta iffy is that everybody has transporters, so humans inventing their own should have little novelty value. The inherent dangers ought to be known, and humans should shop around for, if not transporter machinery, then at least helpful tips or indeed entire user's manuals.

The saving grace in ENT is that humans have little contact with anybody - and OTOH we learn that even the mighty Andorians would not yet possess the tech.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[valkyrie013]

Starts with genetic anomalies, not being put together at 100% even at 99.9% your going to have problems.
And compounded by multiple transports the drift starts getting more and more.

 

[Pauln6]

The transporter was obviously made operational during Kirk's journey. The system still had a non-critical 'check engine light' on but was functional. The fault was in the back up sensor so the primary sensor was fine.

IMO, some kind of unrelated power surge shorted the system and disrupted the incoming confinement beam. Rand tells them to retract but it's THEIR beam that has been disrupted. Kirk tells them to increase the amount of replicated matter from the version stored in the Starfleet buffer but too much had leaked away.

So it was a massively unlikely freak accident. It's probable that the sensor wasn't the cause and possible that it wouldn't have saved them but more likely when the first one shorted, the back up would ordinarily have kicked in.