I'm not even sure it's that much. They only used HC's head, after all. It's still the original body.
The ROTJ constructive criticism thread
- Thread starter Kor
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I'm not even sure it's that much. They only used HC's head, after all. It's still the original body.
Ah yes, ROTJ. The New Hope remake before TFA.
I feel like this view is unwarranted. In TFA, so much is lifted from ANH. In ROTJ, you have the death star thing, and that's basically it.
Not even close.Ah yes, ROTJ. The New Hope remake before TFA.
They do seem to get the most hate.
I think it became somewhat cool to hate ROTJ, especially once the prequels came out. Ewoks are the only major issue, but, watching with fresh eyes, there are a few flaws that would later be seen in the prequels, such as:
- Convulated Plans: As others have said, Luke's plan to face Jabba was ridiculous and depended on so many odd things going right.*
- Overuse of C3P0 and R2D2: Really? You guys took the trouble to dress in camoflage gear for Endor and yet still travel with a shiny gold droid and another that can only move on wheels?
Just ask Han.
From: "Luke? Luke's crazy! Can't even take care of himself".
To: "Thanks. Thanks for coming back to me. Now I owe you one."
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Actually Jedi was considered to be weaker almost from the get go. Part of that was Ewoks (I think it was the prequel-style humor in general: See belching space toads and Tarzan yelling Wookies) and part of it was that the big battle at the end was another Death Star.
The Emperor was cool but it was entirely at the expense of Vader.
The Emperor was cool but it was entirely at the expense of Vader.
At this point Prax, the only thing that says anything -- the only thing that means anything -- is that, "... you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
You know, I just finished watching Jedi again. Had to grimace at Jabba's CGI band and that stupid Boba Fett flirting angle, but it was interesting after this thread.
It's the best of the original trilogy and the worst of the original trilogy. Luke vs. Vader is my favorite duel by far, and the attack on the death star remains one of the best action sequences ever, but that whole Endor sequence drags so bad.
It's the best of the original trilogy and the worst of the original trilogy. Luke vs. Vader is my favorite duel by far, and the attack on the death star remains one of the best action sequences ever, but that whole Endor sequence drags so bad.
The thing about Luke's plan at Jabba's Palace is that it seems he expects them all to be together on the skiffs being delivered to the Sarlacc. Like he knew all along that would be Jabba's ultimate plan.
Yup, it was utterly ridiculous. Would have been funny if R2 shot his lightsaber up so it fell in the sarlaac. I guess ROTJ can suffer the odd story choices since the characters are so strong.
Would have been unfortunate for Luke if Jabba decided to immediately feed Han and Chewie to the Rancor, or if Jabba decided to tell the Empire what was going on.
You mean how Luke nods to himself when Jabba pronounces their sentence, as if Luke had foreseen it in a Force vision? Could it have been more obvious?
I'll take a stab at it-
Objective:
Free our friend Han Solo, and maybe take down the slimy Hutt while were at it
Step 1: "Infiltrate"
Insert Lando as a spy to Learn Jabba's(and his thug's) routine, the layout of his palace, where Han is being kept, etc, etc.
Step 2: "I Offer Gifts"
Send in the 2 droids, giving Jabba an opportunity to repent, and safely securing the Jedi's weapon inside the Palace when he doesn't.
Step 3: "A Thermal Detonator"
Send in Leia disguised as a bounty hunter, along with Chewbacca, as a believable cover story. This is to thaw out Han ahead of time. Now there are 4 heroes on the inside + the two droids and the Jedi weapon.
Step 4: "Arrival of the Master"
Luke enters the palace amd speaks to the Hutt, offering him one last chance to repent/relent. This will fail, as Luke has foreseen.
Step 5: "A Feigned Assassination"
Make a bold attempt on Jabba's life. There is only one punishment for such an act- Be thrown into the pit of despair, where you will be digested for a thousand years.
Step 6: "Kill the Hutt!"
Everyone is in place.
-Han is awoken from his deep freeze, albeit with the unforeseen side effect of being weak and partially blind.
-The mighty Chewbacca is ready to hurt someone.
-Lando is ready to betray his new friends.
-R2 is ready with the Jedi weapon.
-C3p0 is ready for comedy gold(with cheese a'plenty).
-Leia is ready to kill the big guy.
-Luke is ready for Jedi Gymnastics.
A half dozen nods later, the action erupts.
Sure, things could have gone wrong, but all these steps needed to happen one way or another. Lando needed to scout the area, Luke needed to get his weapon in(so Jabba's men didn't confiscate it from him), Someone needed to thaw out Han b4 the escape, and it always helps to have a wookie.
And lastly, as grim as this sounds, it may have been necessary to kill off everyone, so the gang(and the rebellion) didn't have to worry about Jabba hunting them down.
Objective:
Free our friend Han Solo, and maybe take down the slimy Hutt while were at it
Step 1: "Infiltrate"
Insert Lando as a spy to Learn Jabba's(and his thug's) routine, the layout of his palace, where Han is being kept, etc, etc.
Step 2: "I Offer Gifts"
Send in the 2 droids, giving Jabba an opportunity to repent, and safely securing the Jedi's weapon inside the Palace when he doesn't.
Step 3: "A Thermal Detonator"
Send in Leia disguised as a bounty hunter, along with Chewbacca, as a believable cover story. This is to thaw out Han ahead of time. Now there are 4 heroes on the inside + the two droids and the Jedi weapon.
Step 4: "Arrival of the Master"
Luke enters the palace amd speaks to the Hutt, offering him one last chance to repent/relent. This will fail, as Luke has foreseen.
Step 5: "A Feigned Assassination"
Make a bold attempt on Jabba's life. There is only one punishment for such an act- Be thrown into the pit of despair, where you will be digested for a thousand years.
Step 6: "Kill the Hutt!"
Everyone is in place.
-Han is awoken from his deep freeze, albeit with the unforeseen side effect of being weak and partially blind.
-The mighty Chewbacca is ready to hurt someone.
-Lando is ready to betray his new friends.
-R2 is ready with the Jedi weapon.
-C3p0 is ready for comedy gold(with cheese a'plenty).
-Leia is ready to kill the big guy.
-Luke is ready for Jedi Gymnastics.
A half dozen nods later, the action erupts.
Sure, things could have gone wrong, but all these steps needed to happen one way or another. Lando needed to scout the area, Luke needed to get his weapon in(so Jabba's men didn't confiscate it from him), Someone needed to thaw out Han b4 the escape, and it always helps to have a wookie.
And lastly, as grim as this sounds, it may have been necessary to kill off everyone, so the gang(and the rebellion) didn't have to worry about Jabba hunting them down.
Actually, as I saw things in the film, Luke seemed surprised when he was dropped in with the rancor, as if that was something he hadn't foreseen. His nodding afterwards on being sentenced to slowly digest for a thousand years was part relief that things were back on track according to his vision.
That does lend more weight to Luke's comment to the Emperor regarding overconfidence.
Nice point.
All things considered the rebels had a good week. Took down a crime lord, and then took down the Empire.
