The Romulan War: the biggest 'problem' in Trek canon?

[uniderth]

Prequels aren't actually meant to be watched before the stories they are prequels to (whatever George Lucas has dubiously claimed). The hint there is that they get released to an audience after those stories, often long after.

That view doesn't make any sense to me.

ENT shows that the Romulans were making use of remotely controlled unmanned drones, which might explain a lot.

While I didn't like that at first, now I think the use of a drone was a great idea(in part). Looking at our modern technology drone warfare is going to be the thing. I can easily see both sides of the Romulan war being fought largely with drones. However, in my ideal storyline subspace radio is still in its infancy at this time. So there would have to be a mothership within reasonable distance to control the drones, or the drones would have to be automated. But I think the use of drone could largely contribute to why Romulans were never seen, possibly more than the no captives or visual communications. If the battle for a system is fought largely with drones with one or two motherships, there might not even be any real ship to ship encounters.

 

[Jedi Marso]

This whole problem sort of highlights the entire conundrum of prequels as a whole, doesn't it?

I mean, we ALREADY know all about the Romulans and their relationship with the Vulcan.

Just like in the SW preqels we ALREADY know Palpatine is Sidious, Anakin is Vader, and the Republic turns into the Empire.

Maybe it's possible that prequels just...suck.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

That view doesn't make any sense to me.

And likewise, the idea that a story made with the intent of being released to an audience in 2005 should endeavor to preserve a "reveal" from a story that's been (readily available to be) known to that audience since 1966 (or 1980) doesn't make any sense to me...

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think the Romulan War is a problem at all, but I don't mind retcons and rewrites. Does it really matter that a few lines from "Balance of Terror" were ignored by the people behind Enterprise? It's hardly a first in Star Trek (see links in my sig). I'll always put a compelling story ahead of perfect continuity - an example that comes to mind is X-Men: First Class, which very deliberately changed and ignored a few factoids from prior movies but in doing so told a far more compelling story than they might have otherwise.

Whether Enterprise's retcons resulted in better stories is debatable, but the principle is fine by me.

 

[somebuddyX]

There's nothing in Balance of Terror or Enterprise that can't be explained away. Ex Astris Scientia http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/history-romulan.htm already did it like xty years ago and I'm sure the all the novel dudes had this shit beat years ago. All the Romulan War needed to be was like the war against the Chigs in Space: Above and Beyond. Earth and the Chigs didn't even communicate until the final two episodes.

 

[T'Arwen]

This whole problem sort of highlights the entire conundrum of prequels as a whole, doesn't it?

I mean, we ALREADY know all about the Romulans and their relationship with the Vulcan.

Just like in the SW preqels we ALREADY know Palpatine is Sidious, Anakin is Vader, and the Republic turns into the Empire.

Maybe it's possible that prequels just...suck.

I guess your English teachers in high school were not worth their salary. When they gave my class Greek and Shakespeare tragedies to read, they told us it was very common for people back then to know that a character will die. That's probably what George Lucas meant when he said the prequels were meant to be watched after the original trilogy. Maybe people back in the day didn't have as much choice in entertainment. But I don't think these plays would still be around if advance knowledge made them suck.

 

[Commander Richard]

^ Actually, Lucas said that they should be watched in order starting with Episode I.

“Start with one. That’s the way to do it right: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.That’s the way they’re supposed to be done. Just because it took a long time to film it doesn’t mean you don’t do it in order."

Source

 

[TwoJakes]

*** Spoiler ***

Both Romeo and Juliet die at the end of the first act.

 

[Richard Baker]

I would have like Enterprise to have skipped the Xindi arc season entirely, shuffle the other seasons up one notch and have the final season dealing with the Romulan War.

As Mr. Laser Beam pointed out, when Scotty scanned the Romulan ship he was looking for identifiable technology- the impulse drive was recognizable but their FTL system was so different he did not recognize it.

No visual communication for me is not a problem- it was never used either by intent or technological incompatibility. The big reveal in BoT was a surprise back then, it is pretty much assumed that every viewer knows what a Romulan looks like now so showing them does not ruin a surprise from decades ago. Archer never had a clue what they looked like and that is what Starfleet knew until much later when Kirk discovers it. It does seem odd you could have a massive war and not a single Romulan corpse would be found. They did use auto-destructs on their ships but in some battle a ship should have been disabled unexpectedly and the self destruct not performed.

Still, I would have preferred to see a major part of history on screen instead of the wicker ball of death season. They made up a whole new enemy and a major crises when they had one already established in canon waiting to be showm

 

[uniderth]

[...]when they [had] one already established in canon waiting to be show[n.]

Or rather, not shown.

 

[TwoJakes]

It does seem odd you could have a massive war and not a single Romulan corpse would be found

The Romulans used the Remans in the Dominion War, at least once in a command position. The Romulans might have crewed their starships with various intelligent species from within their Empire, some of their ships might have had the entire command staff consist of non-Romulans.

 

[mos6507]

Meh. Enterprise should have just disregarded the whole "We don't know what Romulans look like and that they are related to Vulcans" bit from TOS. That would have solved everything.

Enterprise messed with canon enough as it is.

 

[T'Arwen]

I would have like Enterprise to have skipped the Xindi arc season entirely, shuffle the other seasons up one notch and have the final season dealing with the Romulan War.

As Mr. Laser Beam pointed out, when Scotty scanned the Romulan ship he was looking for identifiable technology- the impulse drive was recognizable but their FTL system was so different he did not recognize it.

No visual communication for me is not a problem- it was never used either by intent or technological incompatibility. The big reveal in BoT was a surprise back then, it is pretty much assumed that every viewer knows what a Romulan looks like now so showing them does not ruin a surprise from decades ago. Archer never had a clue what they looked like and that is what Starfleet knew until much later when Kirk discovers it. It does seem odd you could have a massive war and not a single Romulan corpse would be found. They did use auto-destructs on their ships but in some battle a ship should have been disabled unexpectedly and the self destruct not performed.

Still, I would have preferred to see a major part of history on screen instead of the wicker ball of death season. They made up a whole new enemy and a major crises when they had one already established in canon waiting to be showm

Federation: The First 150 Years ties the Xindi and Romulan war together nicely. Basically Starfleet learned that there were threats in space and started arming other ships like Columbia for defense. Yes, it sucked that all these people died from the Xindi weapon but Earth would have been more of a sitting duck for Romulans if Starfleet didn't step up their security as a result.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Enterprise messed with fanon enough as it is.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[eyeresist]

It all starts in Balance of Terror in TOS- the statements which sort of bind up everything that comes after in terms of the Romulans:

1. The notion that the Earth-Romulan war was fought with sublight ships and atomic weapons.
2. The notion that visual communications didn't exist at the time, so neither side ever saw what the other looked like.
3. The establishment of the Romulans as an ancient offshoot of the Vulcan culture.
4. The notion that 23rd Century Romulan ships are powered by 'simple impulse.'

Balance of Terror really was a bit of a mess to start with, as far as continuity was concerned. Many of the crucial/controversial points were put in the script to set up Kirk telling a crewman "We don't like racism in the future". The enemy had to look like a Vulcan, but it had to be a surprise to all the characters, so:
1) there were no visual comms in the war, 2) ships were destroyed to such an extreme that no-one even saw an enemy's dead body; 3) the Vulcans had no idea they were related to the Romulans, even though they look identical.

(Of course, TNG made the Romulans look quite different, but that issue seems to have been swept under the rug.)

There are also a couple of problems caused by use of terminology: "Their power is simple impulse" and "primitive atomic weapons".
The first one is obviously an error. We could handwave it by saying it wasn't refering to impulse engines, but to the actual power source of the ship, some sort of analog to a dilithium chamber.
"Atomic weapons" feels like a holdover from 50s sci-fi. The notion of ships firing nuclear weapons seems silly to us now. I think the best explanation is that they were using the word "atomic" to mean something different to what we expect. The actual word means "to do with atoms", so in theory it could apply to atomic disintegration, or a plasma cannon powered by an atomic reaction.

I think the way ENT approached the issue was really the only way it could be done. You can't have sublight ships dropping A-bombs on each other. The thing to stick with is the idea of Romulans being mysterious and tricky, and having a secret connection to Vulcan.

If ENT had stuck around long enough to go into the Romulan war, would they have had Federation people actually seeing Romulans? Probably yes. Which would of course been super-controversial.
But it could be explained as something kept secret in order to keep the Federation from falling apart, as one can imagine the Andorians would be even more distrustful of Vulcans if the truth was known.
I can imagine Shran being entrusted with the secret, and the terrible conflict it would cause in him.

 

[Jedi Marso]

If ENT had stuck around long enough to go into the Romulan war, would they have had Federation people actually seeing Romulans? Probably yes. Which would of course been super-controversial.
But it could be explained as something kept secret in order to keep the Federation from falling apart, as one can imagine the Andorians would be even more distrustful of Vulcans if the truth was known.
I can imagine Shran being entrusted with the secret, and the terrible conflict it would cause in him.

THAT would have been a very interesting play on things.

 

[Commander Richard]

If we're dealing with ships in space, attacking and retreating, I can believe that no one ever saw a Romulan. And on the odd chance that they were seen in person, maybe they were like the Breen.

 

[uniderth]

You can't have sublight ships dropping A-bombs on each other.

Why not?

 

[TwoJakes]

The notion of ships firing nuclear weapons seems silly to us now.

Silly why? Photonic weapons were usually depicted as fairly weak, nukes being more powerful and proven old technology. I have no problem with ships firing torpedoes with giga-tonnes warheads.

If antimatter was in somewhat short supply, restricting it for warp cores would make sense. Including the warp cores of the torpedoes themselves.

 

[fireproof78]

Silly why? Photonic weapons were usually depicted as fairly weak, nukes being more powerful and proven old technology. I have no problem with ships firing torpedoes with giga-tonnes warheads.

If antimatter was in somewhat short supply, restricting it for warp cores would make sense. Including the warp cores of the torpedoes themselves.

Exactly my point.

I mean, BSG had atomic weapons as part of their fair, and I certainly could see atomic weapons being used until warp drive was perfected. Also, given the nature of Romulans not allowing their ships to fall in to enemy hands, not seeing a body makes plenty of sense within the canon.