I agree. I would like to have seen more of Kes and Seven on Voyager working on Voyager as crewmates.
The rewatch is going well...
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I agree. I would like to have seen more of Kes and Seven on Voyager working on Voyager as crewmates.
I hate the episode!
Thin, unconvincing, full of holes.
The guy who wrote it probably wrote it when he was sitting on the toilet.
Ten minutes of writing to get rid of the character as soon as possible.
However, there is one episode which is worse.......
I'm in the 3rd Season too--but as a First watch!
I have to say--this show is terrific! It really paid to wait all these years to enjoy "Voyager" on its own, and not compare it to "TNG" or "DS9". To realize it's just a piece of entertainment, and television, that ceased production a long time ago.....
I've heard nothing but criticism of this show over the years--and it seems really unjustified. The stories are creative,fun, intelligent, well produced, well acted by a solid, likeable cast. I would argue- the best group overall of any Trek.
One of the criticisms I heard is that there isn't any development--each new episode is a reset. Well, isn't that pretty much TOS/TNG too? He characters lack growth is another criticism. But- how much more did we really learn about Riker, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, Scott, Bones, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov in those series? Voyager gets too much grief from-sorry- some spoiled Trekkers who were too uptight and took Trek too seriously!
I love Janeways almost mothering of the crew--a fresh approach for a Captain. Chakotay and her have a good relationship and some unspoken attraction. Paris & Kim bring good vibes. I don't get the criticism of Garret Wang- he's just fine in his role.
The Doctor is the best Doctor in Trek. Great performance. Torres is the best Engineer on any series--a good strong role for a Woman character. Kes was terrific.
Neelix- what we're they thinking? Good idea, an alien for a guide. Otherwise- what were they thinking with that prosthetic? Hideous.
Love the built in cliches of Voyager- like crashing shuttles.
Great show- great fun! Rick Berman & Co. sure did good work.
I have to say--this show is terrific! It really paid to wait all these years to enjoy "Voyager" on its own, and not compare it to "TNG" or "DS9". To realize it's just a piece of entertainment, and television, that ceased production a long time ago.....
I've heard nothing but criticism of this show over the years--and it seems really unjustified. The stories are creative,fun, intelligent, well produced, well acted by a solid, likeable cast. I would argue- the best group overall of any Trek.
One of the criticisms I heard is that there isn't any development--each new episode is a reset. Well, isn't that pretty much TOS/TNG too? He characters lack growth is another criticism. But- how much more did we really learn about Riker, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, Scott, Bones, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov in those series? Voyager gets too much grief from-sorry- some spoiled Trekkers who were too uptight and took Trek too seriously!
I love Janeways almost mothering of the crew--a fresh approach for a Captain. Chakotay and her have a good relationship and some unspoken attraction. Paris & Kim bring good vibes. I don't get the criticism of Garret Wang- he's just fine in his role.
The Doctor is the best Doctor in Trek. Great performance. Torres is the best Engineer on any series--a good strong role for a Woman character. Kes was terrific.
Neelix- what we're they thinking? Good idea, an alien for a guide. Otherwise- what were they thinking with that prosthetic? Hideous.
Love the built in cliches of Voyager- like crashing shuttles.
Great show- great fun! Rick Berman & Co. sure did good work.
Nemesis.. He was a bit confused by the title...I said it had nothing to do with the movie. 
He rather liked this episode and was a bit taken with the idea of brainwashing and propaganda. Had a good chuckle about the 'glimpses'. He didn't understand why it HAD to be Tuvok had to be the one to go to the planet to get Chakotay.
Revulsion...thought the scenes with Kim and Seven were funny. Was kind of meh about the Doctor and the crazy isomorph...thought the whole 'shut up' thing was cute.
Its interesting to go through this with someone who is watching without prejudice and baggage. He knows nothing about any of the behind scenes stuff or which actors the fans like or not. Nice to see it through 'fresh' eyes.
He rather liked this episode and was a bit taken with the idea of brainwashing and propaganda. Had a good chuckle about the 'glimpses'. He didn't understand why it HAD to be Tuvok had to be the one to go to the planet to get Chakotay. Revulsion...thought the scenes with Kim and Seven were funny. Was kind of meh about the Doctor and the crazy isomorph...thought the whole 'shut up' thing was cute.
Its interesting to go through this with someone who is watching without prejudice and baggage. He knows nothing about any of the behind scenes stuff or which actors the fans like or not. Nice to see it through 'fresh' eyes.
I've been re watching a bunch of random VOY eps lately. Currently on s4, watched "Living Witness" last night. Very good episode.
To me, VOY is the easiest to watch like this, you can hop around all the seasons and pick the episodes that sound good to you at the time. DS9, ENT and TNG seem better to watch in sequence.
To me, VOY is the easiest to watch like this, you can hop around all the seasons and pick the episodes that sound good to you at the time. DS9, ENT and TNG seem better to watch in sequence.
I have to set aside a couple of months if I want to re-watch DS9.
Scientific Method-
It would be funny if they accidentally shut down the warp core.
Though the flog line was hilarious.
At the end when Tom and B'Elanna were wondering about the truth of their relationship-"Well they were following them around taking pictures. Bunch of pervs!
Year of Hell-raised an interesting question. "How come they remembered the Year of Hell during Kes' episode "Before and "After? Remember Kes told Tom about it. So how did it end in that alternate future? Janeway died so Chakotay made some kind of concession to Anorak?
I always felt Janeway et al never remembered Kes' warning because by the time they met up with the Krenim again, the timeline had changed and THAT version of Voyager had been wiped away along with Kes' storyline.
The fact that Voyager experienced a very similar story when Seven was on board, suggests there is some sort of "fate" thing going on even in different timelines.
One of the things I liked about revisiting this story is not just how things were the same (like that missile lodged in the Jefferies tube) but how they changed it up.
In Kes' version of the story, Janeway and B'Elanna were lost/killed during a Krenim attack .
In Seven's version of thestory, Chakotay and Tom were lost/kidnapped during a Krenim attack.
The fact that Voyager experienced a very similar story when Seven was on board, suggests there is some sort of "fate" thing going on even in different timelines.
One of the things I liked about revisiting this story is not just how things were the same (like that missile lodged in the Jefferies tube) but how they changed it up.
In Kes' version of the story, Janeway and B'Elanna were lost/killed during a Krenim attack .
In Seven's version of thestory, Chakotay and Tom were lost/kidnapped during a Krenim attack.
However, there is one episode which is worse.......
You're SO mad you won't even say its name
That one was a joke. Jen must have wanted the money or felt obligated. I certainly wouldn't come back for that. F 'em.
oops, I'm double posting as usual.
They had to reset because they had too much fun beating the hell out of the ship to make it space worthy.
I get that. What I don't get is that time didn't reset the first time around. Tom remembered it. Was it just them and the Krenim shooting at each other with no Anorak 'messing around' with time involved?
ahh, I follow you. Honestly, I'm not sure. It's my hope the writers weren't once again inconsistent but that the time line was being screwed with since Before and After as they drew closer to range of Krenim space. Did they ever elaborate how far that beam reached?
In "Before and After", we are watching Kes move backwards through time because of the effects of a "biotemporal chamber" the EMH invented to treat her Ocampan dementia called the morilogium. Somehow, that machine reactivates something called "chroniton poisoning" that occurred the first time she was exposed to the chroniton torpedo stuck in that Jefferies tube.
Tom "remembers" the Krenim during each time jump because he's currently engaging with them, but he doesn't remember what a rapidly de-aging Kes "remembers" because she's retaining her memories from the future as she moves into her past. Its Tom's "past" she can't remember because the morilogium stole her memories of the past and she's slowly regaining them as she moves backwards.
She time jumps backwards 6 times., to a time that is eleven months before the Krenim first meet Voyager.
On the 5th jump she discovered the frequency of the offending torpedo and on that 6th jump she and the crew rebuild the biotemporal chamber and tune it appropriately.
Once in the chamber, she is pushed back to an ovum where we have the ULTIMATE reset, and we see time stop moving backwards and then escalate forwards until she returns to the "time" where she's put into that biochamber. Her time traveling self is now anchored with everyone else, going in the right direction.
As for "the future", Kes is the only one who remembers that, in all its mystery. She walks off to record her memories of the Krenim that she expects to meet with in 11 more months.
In my fanwank... before Voyager has a chance to meet up with the Krenim in 11 months, the Krenim's meddling alters Voyager's timeline (unexpectedly) and wipes away Kes' adventure and therefore Kes' logs on same.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'currently engaging' them.
During the scene with the older Kes he tells her the story of the Year of Hell. She asks what that is and he tells her 'That is what some of us call it NOW' as it is in the past for them. As in he remembers in that timeline. No reset. Something happened differently and I wonder what 'that' was.
Like your fanwank about Kes' report. It wasn't forgotten. It was erased.
Oh... I think I see what you're asking.
You want to know why the "Tom/Kes Married With Child" timeline didn't get a Krenim reset before Kes went senile? Is that it?
If so, that's probably easier to explain.
It was because Janeway was dead.
I don't know how Chakotay eventually led Voyager through its / his year of hell, but its obvious that he never flew Voyager into a death charge against the Krenim time ship.
It was that seemingly suicidal action that led to the reset seen on season 4's "Year of Hell".
Normally I'd say "thanks"... but since I answered THE WRONG QUESTION, I doubt such praise is deserved.
Except that's exactly what we see at the end of the episode, a universe without the Timeship. Voyager approaches Krenim space and is told to go the long way 'round.
The difference is that Kes isn't there when we eventually meet the Krenim for real. Whatever role she played the first time around obviously had a dramatic impact on the timeline.
There's actually a lot of crazy stuff to think about there. In "The Gift," Kes flings Voyager across Borg space (10,000 lightyears or something). She must have done the same thing in the "Before and After" timeline, otherwise Voyager wouldn't have encountered the Krenim for another 10 years! Only instead of taking a shuttle and leaving the ship, somehow she gets her powers under control and remains on Voyager for the rest of her life.
Hell, maybe Kes kills Annorax with her brain.
Would she even be alive to face the Krenim ten years after they messed with the Borg? Unless her new shiny powers extended her life of course.
I feel like you're not actually reading anything anyone is saying.
No, she would NOT have been around 10 years later, which is exactly my point. In both timelines, Voyager gets hurled across Borg space and encounters the Krenim around the same time.
The difference is that in one timeline Kes is still on the ship, which means her powers don't cause her to leave. It is Kes remaining on the ship that causes the differences in the timeline. There's no reset because they don't need to do that. We don't know specifically what happens, except that Janeway and other crewmen die.
But you HAVE to have the Timeship. Annorax altering time is what causes the Krenim to gain power and do much damage. Before he does that -- in a world without the time changes -- they just ask Voyager to go a different direction.
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