Spoilers The return of the "reset button"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by eschaton, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How can a series fundamentally changing its premise be a reset button?

    New storyline does not equal reset.
     
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  2. MrPointy

    MrPointy Captain Captain

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    They didn't really reset everything, so much as they swept it under the rug. I'm betting The Picard Show mentions Discovery and/or the spore drive at some point.
     
  3. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    I've read your post a few times and I'm failing to understand how the reset button is in play. The show is changing it's primary setting, possibly permanently, how exactly is that pushing the reset button? Discovery's journey to 32nd century is completely based on previous arcs and storylines the very nature of it is as opposite to reset button as can be.
     
  4. Michael

    Michael In alignment with canon Moderator

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    You know, I can kind of see where you‘re coming from with this, @eschaton. I don‘t know if I‘d call it a reset button per se, but it sure seems like they have completely given up on the show‘s original setting and premise. Many of the things that happened in the first two seasons will never be of any importance again.

    But I guess it’s only par for the course that writers who don‘t seem to be able to craft a coherent arc even for a single season, won‘t be able to maintain any kind of arc for the series as a whole. Imagine hit shows like Game of Thrones or The Expanse completely abandoning their setting and premise halfway through their run.

    I‘m not even sure what Discovery‘s mission will be from here on out. Finding a way home? Surely that can‘t be a priority, because the writers don‘t want them to get home. Exploring the universe and discovering new things? They are so far removed from anything they know; who will they report their findings to? Tilly wants to become a captain? On what ship and in what fleet? At this point it seems like the show has lost its focus.

    It‘s a shame that they didn‘t have more confidence in the original vision for this show and completely gave in to some loudmouths on the internet. Having a character call out fan terms like Prime and Mirror Universe in dialog (!) and having practically the whole universe sworn to secrecy about the existence of Discovery out of a weird sense to ”align the show with canon“ surely represents one of the low points of Star Trek‘s history. At least it does for me.
     
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  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The people running Discovery now aren't the same people who started it. When it began, it was conceived as a standalone anthology series (with only one season to this crew AND a timejump finale), now it's ongoing as part of an all-out Marvel-style telespam strategy.

    Change was inevitable.
     
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  6. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    As others pointed out, just because a story arc was concluded doesn’t make it a reset button. This is an approach I think is best for serialized television where a story plays out within a season as opposed to the whole show. LOST was one big long story for six seasons, for better or worse. Then there’s a show like BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER that had season storylines that never carry over the next, but the consequences of those seasons are still felt in the aftermath. ENTERPRISE tried this with the Xindi arc in the third season. While that storyline resolved by the fourth season, it still had a definite effect on the characters that they no longer felt like the same people from the first two seasons (except perhaps Mayweather and Hoshi, the most underutilized characters).

    DISCO will be changing it’s premise pretty hard, but I doubt the characters will act like it’s just another episode. Their lives have changed DRAMATICALLY. For example Tilly’s all about wanting to become a Starfleet Captain, bit is that still feasible in the 32nd century?
     
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  7. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Haters gonna hate. I enjoyed the season and found it coherent. I guess I'm just not as advanced as you are. Yeah I must be simple. :shrug:
     
  8. TPezz

    TPezz Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    In my opinion, the Season 3 story arc is a continuation on of Season 2, not really a reset. Everything that’s happened thus far hasn’t been erased, it’s still part of their story. The first episode of the next season will likely pick up where we left off, with Discovery arriving in the future and having to cope with being in a strange new world away from everyone they knew. I’m sure there will be focus on Michael missing her family and Tyler, as well as feeling guilt for the casualty that occurred. There’s also the matter of whether her mother is alive as well, and whether they have actually saved the universe from Control.

    We also know that Georgiou somehow returns to her time to lead the S31 show, so there’s her journey on how she’ll get back. The Red Angel Suit is also still in existence.

    So as far as I’m concerned, it’s not a reset at all. It’s just a continuation on of the previous two seasons. Kurtzman also said that S3 would continue to link up with cannon, so that doesn’t mean that Pike and Co have seen the last of Discovery and it’s crew. A reset would be if they had have erased Michael Burnhams whole past, right back to when she was a child. I was afraid that may have been the case, which would have upset me since it would’ve meant the whole two seasons were a complete waste. Thankfully that didn’t happen.

    Besides, have they even made it 950 years into the future though? Remember the crystal only has infinite power, and when first determining where they would jump to, they didn’t take into account the jumps back in time that Burnham ended up making to create the red signals. Perhaps they haven’t ended up as far into the future as we thought.
     
  9. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Season 3 will be a continuation, not a reset
     
  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Man Premium Member

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    Marooning them for the foreseeable future in the, uh, future is the opposite of returning to the status quo, and definitely has a long-lasting impact on the characters.

    Calling this outcome a reset button is a dog that don't hunt, and a silly way to stretch for a criticism to launch a topic with.

    I expect that the folks aboard ship will talk and deal with it a great deal, and the show is about them.
     
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  11. rahullak

    rahullak Commodore Commodore

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    If "reset" here means: whatever happened in previous season/episodes will no longer carry over to the next season, then this is most certainly NOT a reset. The characters and the ship carry over from the previous seasons. I'm certain DISCO writers will not abandon the characterization and start with a complete and total blank slate.

    If "reset" means that there is a change in setting, mission etc., then this is could be seen as a reset. But IMO, this is not the same "reset" as you've described for Voyager, since setting and mission did not change for VOY: only that there was no impact of what could be seen as significant events.
     
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  12. Starflight

    Starflight Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I know this isn't directly what the thread is about, but I have to defend Voyager:

    The reset button criticism confuses me, because Voyager easily has more continuity than TOS and TNG. The only real continuity I remember in TNG is the Klingon politics arc, and obvious minor stuff like Tasha dying, the Borg mini-arc, Worf and Troi being together for 30 seconds.

    Voyager has the ship actually moving through space. This is done in the absolute worst way imaginable, where Kazon space seems to stretch on for endless light years even though they're basically tribal people theoretically stuck on one planet, but we do eventually move through Vidiian space and into Hirogen space (both of which are, again, really bizarrely defined and seem to stretch on through half the quadrant).

    Voyager also easily has more permanent plot changes than TNG or TOS - B'Elanna and Tom get together, the Delta Flyer is constructed, Kes leaves (after slowly developing her telekinesis over many episodes), the Doctor and Seven of Nine both have rough but definite character arcs, Barclay has an ongoing side-plot in which he works to rescue Voyager, etc. All this, and it has many episodes which essentially require you to have viewed previous episodes to understand what's going on at all - Course Oblivion, Fury, The Voyager Conspiracy, that shit one where the Irish holodeck guy goes looking for Janeway, every Barclay episode, every episode including Icheb, and so on. Easily matches and probably surpasses TNG for continuity and episodes having later repercussions.

    I really never got why TNG is allowed to "get away" with resetting (put in quotes because I don't think having a broad status quo to go back to at the end of most episodes is necessarily a bad thing) but Voyager gets roasted for it. It's pretty much the main criticism of the show along with "Janeway is insane", which is another that I don't really get.
     
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  13. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I do remember taking a sort of delight whenever a character on Voyager made reference to the events of past episodes. And because I remember that reaction I had, it's all coming back to me; how I remember what my attitude watching the show was like. I knew they were just all self-contained episodes. The idea of serialization was just so foreign to me (I wasn't watching Deep Space Nine back then).
     
  14. TrickyDickie

    TrickyDickie Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Spock isn't dead, and it's not going to be a two-year wait to see if they really do bring him back, so it's all good. :lol:

    Seriously, though, I found the end of the Season 2 finale to be 'deliciously frustrating'....they basically left the possibilities wide open. I really don't care whether they have a clear vision for Season 3, or none. My curiosity is piqued and I am looking forward to seeing what they do.

    First wormhole I see tonight, and straight on 'til morning!

    :hugegrin:
     
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  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is exactly the opposite of a "reset button" as the definition has come to be known. There's a major change in the show that will have PERMANENT IMPACT on the characters, setting, and direction of the story from this moment forward.

    A reset would have been Michael going back in time and stopping the Control plot before it could begin, and nobody knows or notices, and everything is back to normal.

    And I'm sorry, I love all Trek to varying degrees, but comparing VOY to DSC is like comparing downtown Detroit to the Bahamas as a vacation destination , with VOY sitting happily in the great State of Michigan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  16. Michael

    Michael In alignment with canon Moderator

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    :confused: What the fuck? I don‘t see how anything I wrote warrants calling me a hater. In fact, I like and love many aspects of the show. (The Airiam avatar might be a clue, for one.) That is exactly why I care about it being better. Ditto for the ”advanced“ tangent: What in my post gave you the impression that that‘s how I see myself, or that I see others as ”simple“? That‘s some wicked reading between the lines skills you got there.
     
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  17. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Voyager's premise, combined with the show' inability to allow any major happening to have a lasting impact on the characters, ship, etc is what gets it roasted. It gets criticized more than TNG because TNG was episodic and didn't declare it's premise to a specific goal (in this case, getting home after being flung 70,000 ly away with a mixed crew and no resources.). With a premise like that, having events wiped away makes watching the show a near-useless exercise. And that premise magnifies the negative feelings of the reset button episodes significantly.

    And VOY, pound-for-pound, had more reset button episodes (goes nowhere, does nothing tales) that, by the end of the episode, the characters had no recollection or consequence for what just happened. Essentially, a series of "what if" episodes that are meaningless to the premise.

    Voyager failed in almost every way to live up to its premise. TNG did not. So, yeah, VOY is going to take heat for that. Deservedly so.
     
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  18. Starflight

    Starflight Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think that's true. Almost nothing in TOS and very little of TNG has a lasting effect (but IMO it doesn't need to).

    Yeah that's fair. If people are ripping on the show for mishandling its premise and totally failing to utilise it, then it's a criticism I agree with. But a lot of people (nobody in this thread, but in many discussions online over the years) just throw out "no continuity" as a complaint in and of itself, which again, is confusing to me since VOY demonstrably has more continuity than TOS and I'd argue more than TNG.
     
  19. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Man Premium Member

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    I absolutely agree that the producers have given up on the original setting and premise - they just couldn't make it work.

    That does not make what they've done a "reset button," nor does the fact that The Burnham is teh Awesome make her a Mary Sue.
     
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  20. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    Voyager was frustratingly inconsistent in this regard. I agree it had some GREAT continuity. An example being Torres's series long issue with being half Klingon and her issues with her father which culminate in what is probably my favourite episode of Season 'Lineage'. Then you have stuff like the never-ending supply of shuttles, torpedoes and the ship looking like it's come out of a ship yard after years of battles and catastrophes. Stuff like that kinda throws you out of thinking that the delta quadrant is a dangerous place.

    There also things like Torres's depression which is both a sign of great continuity and shitty continuity because the episode follows up on the impact of the destruction of the Maquis but ultimately has no impact on her character, because it is never mentioned again. A similar thing happens in the the DS9 episode 'Hard Time'. O'brien goes through this horribly traumatic event where he thinks he's spent 20 years in prison, almost kills himself and at the end Bashir is like 'Here have a hypospray' and we never hear about it again. Both these examples are bugbears for me, as someone who suffers from Depression I would have liked an ongoing exploration of the impact it has on both Torres and O'brien.
     
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