The Return of the Archons - 45th Anniversary this week

[UnknownSample]

Wingsley-- Thanks, I saved all that information. As for starships, acc. to the Making of ST, there were supposed to be twelve and only twelve starships to patrol all of the Federation, all identical to our Enterprise, as improbable as that seems now. They would have been thinking, who needs quantity when each ship can wipe out a planet? they can't all be everywhere at once however. I know this part wasn't an issue you brought up, though.
Anyway, that's 12 official Federation starships. I don't remember if the Archon was Federation or just an Earth ship, but any kind of ship going between stars might have been called a starship. I should shut up, none of the details are fresh in my mind.

Alchemist-- Thank you, very much, for all the Saturnialia background (and for the remark about my post). I think that the early stages in their thinking help us understand what their story ideas were meant to be, but on the other hand, after some thought, they did clearly choose to do something somewhat different. I think they became more focused about what point they wanted to make, and what would best drive that point home, onscreen.

I can easily imagine some grandiose idea about a more elaborate, normal-seeming festival that seemed harmless on the surface, just a way of honoring their "god" Landru, with something malevolent going on under the surface, which Kirk etc. then work to uncover. The whole story would probably have consisted of the Festival.

Then, for one thing, they probably hit their foreheads and realized, oops, only 51 minutes... also that they needed something more visceral and jarring to get across the consequences of "benevolent" total control. Everyday life was made scarier by zombifying the populace. Then the "Festival", totally and completely accepted by the "wonderful", peaceful, surrealistically-benign-seeming public, turns out to be utter violence and mayhem. There you go, commentary on the hypocrisy and doublethink of the general public, maybe including how Vietnam became possible. The ideas apply to many different parts of real life, whether they were all in the writers' minds or not.

Wingsley said that TRotA seemed Twilight-Zone-like. I'll go further, and say that the whole feel of ST season one is very Twilight-Zone-like. The TZ didn't hold back or only go halfway, in depicting the horror of this or that possibility, or shrink from going as far as needed to show what the dark side of all human beings can lead to, if we're not careful. This Saturnalia was an excellent place to start, and I think that for the purposes of a powerful 51-minute prime-time TV episode, it was refined gradually into what we see now.

 

[Wingsley]

I always took the "twelve like it in the fleet" remark that Kirk made the Capt. Christopher in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" to mean that the Federation had built a grand total of only 13 all-new Constitution-class cruisers in the 2240s, of which the Enterprise was one. Those surviving ships of older, holdover cruiser classes of previous generations could be refit/recycled (such as Constellation) to a Constitution spec, but they would not be part of the "twelve like it" club. So the 13 Connies would probably start out as prototypes/test beds before older cruisers would renovated/rebuilt to the latest spec.

 

[Botany Bay]

The purpose of red hour, I believe, is never stated, and our thoughts about it are supposition. Plausible though it might be. I'm open to correction from the script, though.

I think part of red hour was just to film a crazed riot and inject it into the ep. TV is spectacle, after all, as well as story and character.

In Act I of the final script, right before the scene that shows Kirk looking out the window of Reger's house, there is a scene involving Kirk and Lindstrom that had been filmed but not included in the final cut of the episode. In this deleted scene, Lindstrom tells Kirk:

LINDSTROM
But it's Bacchanal! Saturnalia!
Occurring spontaneously...
simultaneously... I've got to know more...​

Ahhh...thanks alchemist. There are some strange, crude edits in that scene, I always wondered what they cut.

At one point, Reger just disappears from the room midway through a conversation! Kirk asks him a question, wanting to know more about Landru, then it cuts to the festival mayhem, then back to Kirk, and Reger has vanished.

Anyone know what was cut here?

 

[Timo]

Whether Starfleet has just 12 starships or not is fairly irrelevant to the question of what the Archon was, because Starfleet would still have to modernize its fleet more or less constantly. Kirk's ship may be old, but it's probably not as old as Starfleet is, and nothing in TOS supports such an unlikely (even if nicely scifi) concept. Starship classes in all likelihood come and go, and "just twelve like her" would almost implicitly mean that there are also half a dozen older and quite possibly half a dozen newer ships currently operational in the starship category.

"Return of the Archons" probably is the episode with the least clues on the featured past starship. In "A Piece of the Action", we learn quite a few things about the Horizon: that it did not observe the Prime Directive, that it probably still was Starfleet (because other parties wouldn't have to observe the PD no matter what), that it probably had transporters (because the Iotians knew tactically significant details about those), that it explicitly wasn't in subspace communications with home base. In "A Taste of Armageddon", the Valiant is identified as an "Earth expedition" vessel and given the USS prefix. In episodes where the heroes directly interact with other starships, their Starfleet or at least UFP identity is not left unclear. But the Archon is a mystery ship, potentially old enough to predate the Romulan War, possibly alien altogether, and never defined in terms of capabilities or shortcomings.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Doug Otte]

I watched it again last night, in honor of the anniversary. It's always been a favorite of mine, admittedly having some inconsistencies. Two moments I've always loved:

1) Spock sleeping with eyes open - Was he sleeping, or just meditating? He seemed to waken when Kirk called him. Perhaps he used those inner eyelids that were a plot device for the ending of Operation: Annihilate!
2) The eerie music when the lighting panel is revealed - I've always loved this theme, which is also used in Miri. It imparts a sense of wonder in the greater universe that makes me want to explore.

Doug

 

[alchemist]

UnknownSample: I can't disagree with you. In my view, what ultimately wound up on television was ambiguous. I guess you can chalk that up to the collaborative nature of the medium because what was scripted was certainly different than what was budgeted, acted, directed, filmed, edited, etc.

Botany Bay: About two pages of script were filmed and cut following Kirk's line of "What about Landru?" Originally, that scene continued with Reger getting "nervous and appalled," sweeping the room, and then exiting. His actions puzzled Kirk and Spock. Then, Lindstrom "makes a quick move to the window" and Kirk stops him. Lindstrom tells Kirk that the festival is "...Bacchanal! Saturnalia!" (as I mentioned previously) and Kirk responds to him with "This is not an expedition to study the folkways of Beta III!" Spock interrupts the two with the suggestion that maybe they should "check on the condition of Mr. Sulu." Kirk calls Uhura and finds out from her that "He sort of ran amok. They're putting him under sedation." Kirk tells her to keep her channels open. At this point, the action then syncs up with the broadcast scene of Kirk looking out the window at festival.

 

[plynch]

Watched it last night. Boy is Kirk cavalier to Marplan and the hoodies after blowing up what has governed their civ for six MILLENIA. At least he left one advisor.

Oh, and once again (earlier) the PD dilemma is mooted because of the Enterprise's imminent destruction if the landing party doesn't interfere.

 

[Timo]

Or perhaps we should point out that once again, Kirk finds a convenient mitigating circumstance in that the local culture is already so screwed up that a bit of interference would only do it good.

Which is a cop-out, really. Both here and in "The Apple". In contrast, in "Omega Glory" there is no mitigating circumstance, so the starship captain coping with the situation becomes a villain. And in a number of other episodes, from "A Taste of Armageddon" to "Spectre of the Gun", Kirk has explicit orders to interfere in the name of the Federation. So the "dilemma" here is artificial and should be a mere secondary concern to begin with because the mission of negating threats to further starships should take precedence.

At least Kirk doesn't act as if there is a dilemma here. None of the heroes or sidekicks actually argues for noninterference. The same with "The Apple": interference is always an option there, and it's just a philosophical argument between Spock and McCoy on whether interference is necessary.

Throughout TOS, the Prime Directive seems to be more like the Least Suggestion, subservient to all other concerns. Usually, it goes hand in hand with the general and commonsense need to operate covertly when a single landing party faces an entire planetful of potential opponents. It's only in TNG that it starts to affect the plots in any major way.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's only in TNG that it starts to affect the plots in any major way.

Although the phrase "Prime Directive" does not occur on-screen in A Private Little War [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/45.htm], attempting not to interfere in the normal social development on the planet is a major element of this episode's plot. Memory Alpha ascribes the Prime Directive as applying in this episode [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/A_Private_Little_War_(episode)]. However, owing to its absence from the transcript, the precise logic by which they arrive at this conclusion is not entirely clear to me.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, in some ways the rules in "Private Little War" are the opposite of the rules in "Bread and Circuses". In the former, affecting the course of the society is bad, even when outside forces are in action there, but telling the natives that one is coming from the stars and showing them a few futuristic gadgets is okay. In the latter, it's vice versa: secrecy about "self and mission" is mandatory, but if something about the planet feels wrong, it's the duty of Kirk to put it right again.

"Archons" is more like the latter than the former. And the "self and mission" thing is simple military prudence, hardly a sign of an overruling altruist concern, let alone one needlessly hobbling our heroes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

Well, there is another angle: Kirk's superiors obviously sent the Enterprise to C-111 Beta III to investigate the disappearance of the Archon. We can readily assume he has standing orders to investigate and identify possible security threats, and if necessary to deal with them. It could be assumed that C-111, like NGC-321 ("A Taste of Armageddon") was a "starship trap" and therefore warranted action. After all, what good is a non-interference directive if the governing body issuing said directive affords its people no security in the face of a threat?

 

[Timo]

Quite so. Although in both cases, there is a notable lack of urgency... And in any case, Kirk reacts the same whether it's only his ship under threat ("Who Mourns", "Savage Curtain") or general UFP interests ("Armageddon", "Archons"), or when there is no known threat yet ("Corbomite", "Spectre"). Self-defense seems to rank really high on the list of things - except when Captain Tracey attempts it...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Castellan]

Or perhaps we should point out that once again, Kirk finds a convenient mitigating circumstance in that the local culture is already so screwed up that a bit of interference would only do it good.

Which is a cop-out, really. Both here and in "The Apple". In contrast, in "Omega Glory" there is no mitigating circumstance, so the starship captain coping with the situation becomes a villain. And in a number of other episodes, from "A Taste of Armageddon" to "Spectre of the Gun", Kirk has explicit orders to interfere in the name of the Federation. So the "dilemma" here is artificial and should be a mere secondary concern to begin with because the mission of negating threats to further starships should take precedence.

At least Kirk doesn't act as if there is a dilemma here. None of the heroes or sidekicks actually argues for noninterference. The same with "The Apple": interference is always an option there, and it's just a philosophical argument between Spock and McCoy on whether interference is necessary.

Throughout TOS, the Prime Directive seems to be more like the Least Suggestion, subservient to all other concerns. Usually, it goes hand in hand with the general and commonsense need to operate covertly when a single landing party faces an entire planetful of potential opponents. It's only in TNG that it starts to affect the plots in any major way.

Timo Saloniemi

And taken way to seriously. Hell, many of the PD centered TNG episodes left a very bad flavor in my mouth.

 

[jayrath]

Lets not forget that (in the beginning) unknown forces on the planet have made mush of Sulu's mind. Kirk is responding to an attack, as much as anything.

 

[Timo]

...Although at that point, his obvious response should be retreat and quarantine, rather than persistence with an invasion. That is, unless we figure in his mission of neutralizing the threat against ancient starships - and if we take that into account, Sulu's fate shouldn't matter much either way.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[plynch]

Help my memory. Is there an ep where Kirk changes a society when there ISN'T grave danger to the ship involved? That seems to mitigate the PD except in the mind of Merrick in Bread and Circuses.

 

[Wingsley]

Well, he's under orders to investigate Neural when he discovers Klingon interference there. ("A Private Little War") Kirk's interpretation of the Prime Directive gives him license to equip Tyree's boys with firepower equivalent to what Krell's giving Apella and the other Village People.

Of course, Kirk seems to be fighting a kind of proxy war with the Klingons there, so maybe it could be argued that Neural is another security issue for the Federation, just not a "starship trap".

Maybe a more interesting question (challenge?) would be if there are any "starship trap" type situations in TOS when Kirk does not vacate General Order One...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Maybe a more interesting question (challenge?) would be if there are any "starship trap" type situations in TOS when Kirk does not vacate General Order One...

Scotty manages do avoid violating it in Bread and Circuses right? Not sure if that's really a starship trap episode though.

 

[Wingsley]

I'd say "Bread and Circuses" is a good example of Kirk investigating an inhabited planet while he and the Enterprise crew abide by the Prime Directive. And this even though the head of the major power's government had knowledge of the Federation and tried to exploit Starfleet personnel. Kirk and Scott actually actually come out of it with honor. Capt. Merrick takes a stab in the back, though... literally...

 

[plynch]

I'd say "Bread and Circuses" is a good example of Kirk investigating an inhabited planet while he and the Enterprise crew abide by the Prime Directive. And this even though the head of the major power's government had knowledge of the Federation and tried to exploit Starfleet personnel. Kirk and Scott actually actually come out of it with honor. Capt. Merrick takes a stab in the back, though... literally...

They do follow the PD, but this isn't one of those They're-stagnant-so-I-can-mess-with-them eps. Any time he does that, there also is danger to ship, which mitigates or moots the ethical dilemma. IIRC