Spoilers The Red Suit

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Search4, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    New York City
    I’m quite astonished by the red “angel” suit and since its multi episode and in the titles thought it worth a discussion. Here’s some “what it can do” powers based on Discovery.

    - transport you in time forward (first jump)
    - transport you in time backward (saving the Church folk) even before the suit exists (sorry Quantum Leap)
    - transport you in space (earth, Vulcan, Andoria, Terrawhatsitsname, etc )
    - move large objects (church) thousands of light years instantly (no life support in the church)
    - provide food water perhaps toilet facilities (or else she’s eating really old pasta which survived the nuke strikes)
    - allow you to see things without being noticed up and down the timestream (“Seen you die hundreds of times” or “white dress at graduation” and more alluded to)
    - allow you to make multiple changes to the timeline - Mom Burnham keeps trying and the changes are sometimes additive (save MB on Vulcan) sometimes not (hundreds of attempts to stop Control)
    - understand things you don’t know about like Control being the entity that kills all sentient life, which she would not have known 10 years prior the most recent episode. Alternatively see life is ended and allows you to investigate this in enough detail to figure out how and why.
    - move the Sphere into Discovery’s path
    - store all the data from said sphere
    - heal the dead - from breathing toxic fumes - in seconds

    Ok advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic and that’s a theme. But really? Mama doesn’t mention the suit getting a tech / angel upgrade so this was built by 31? Really?

    I want one!!! But yes this is ridiculous.
     
    Phoenix219, Longinus, ITDUDE and 8 others like this.
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Escaped from Trumpistan
    Absolutely. Though I'm just going with the flow at this point, before they mash the big red reset button.
     
  3. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Oh they absolutely will. The alternative is even worse. Congrats writers, you backed yourself into a corner where the most hated writing device is your best case scenario.
     
    Phoenix219, Longinus and Deledrius like this.
  4. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2016
    Location:
    stuck between a rock and a kiss-ass place
    She could have had an encounter with the Time Lords or something.:rommie:
     
  5. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    There's absolutely no telling what she encountered in the past or the future in her suit.

    It's very much of a piece with Year of Hell.

    I imagine the suit is no longer exactly what it was at the outset, so we need not conclude that S31 made the suit exactly what it is in the "present"
     
    Deledrius, CommanderRaytas and TPezz like this.
  6. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    They just weren't trying hard enough in Next Gen/Voyager/DS9:guffaw:
     
    seigezunt likes this.
  7. matthunter

    matthunter Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Putting the sphere in Discovery's path could be more subtle - she just had to influence Spock's route so that the Sphere was along Disco's intercept course.
     
    Search4, SolarisOne and urbandk like this.
  8. PiotrB

    PiotrB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    This is only ridiculous if you have this attitude. Throughout the history of ST there have been things that were much more qualified to be described as ridiculous and yet were rationalized. Here most of your accusations can be easily explained by the time crystal and the huge amount of energy stored in the suit and the use of the technobabble already existing in the series. Nothing new in ST.
     
    ScottJ85, Ovation, Alan Roi and 2 others like this.
  9. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    No, he's right, it absolutely is ridiculous.

    Yes, Star Trek has 800+ hours of content. If you're doing a top ten worst plot devices in those, you'll probably find a few instances more ridiculous than that. But not many. And that's damning with faint praise, as those other instances (Spock without a brain being remote controlled, warp 10 lizard, magic superblood & transwarp beaming) get rightfully ridiculously mocked every time they come up somewhere, because they are so laughable. This suit belongs right there on that list. And this one is especially embarrassing, because it's the main mcguffin of the entire season, and they had almost two years to come up with a proper planning, backstory and explanation. Instead it's just another entry in the '''we-don't-talk-about-it" lost of embarrassing things Trekkies try to hide from the mainstream because it makes our franchise look so corny...
     
    Gepard, Longinus, ITDUDE and 5 others like this.
  10. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    I disagree. I mean, if we're so blasé about time travel ten years later that we're conducting research in the 1960s, I find the suit completely within the scope of 23rd century Star Trek.

    By these McGuffin, Deus ex machina standards, DISCO is better than all of TOS and much of the rest.

    I'm just waiting for them to talk about esper potential.
     
    Ovation and Alan Roi like this.
  11. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    And yet it still can't summon phaser blasts to take out 2 Klingons and Leland.

    I'm getting skeptical, but the best explanation is that it was a lot more basic when she started out in the 1st jump, and she collected tech through her time incursions, adding to the suit's abilities over time.

    Alternatively, the suit might be tethered to 950 years in the future because that's when it's actually from. One way or another, ST got its hands on it. Maybe.

    But add some phasers to the thing.
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    No, it is nothing new to Trek and this one is no more (and no less) offensive than any other. Mileage will vary on this point, but I find individuals objecting to specific magic tech rather odd, to say the least.
     
    Alan Roi, urbandk, PiotrB and 2 others like this.
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Location:
    Nuevo México
    Is it ridiculous and nonsensical? Absolutely.
    Does it matter? No.

    And the only thing elevating it to be 'worse' than any of the other stupid shit in franchise history is bias. Sorry.
     
  14. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    New York City
    This is -a lot- of magic tech, much of it unrelated to a time traveling suit. I do agree she may have had time to "upgrade it" - but originally, she jumped forward and was in space. So somehow she could at least jump spatially to the planets we saw even from day 1, which, after all IS THE WHOLE POINT of the spore drive. What a remarkable invention. And of course, no plans seem to survive (a common trope) so no one can duplicate it.

    The tech required to upgrade the suit >>> the tech required to upgrade Control.

    I'm definitely in the Warp 10 Lizard camp here and btw I really like this show.
     
  15. Tyr

    Tyr Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    The Red Angel story started quite interesting, but after a few episodes the writers seem to somehow lost track. The last episodes just don't fit in my opinion. It is almost like "make the story up as you go".
     
  16. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    I think people are forgetting one thing. The Red Suit uses the same kind of of technology that Harry Mudd used in Madness to make the Sanest Man Go Mad. And her anchor point is 950 years in the future. As noted most of the things she has done could be attribute to technology still floating around 950 years in the future she's come across for all the stuff she's done other than travel back in time.

    However, as with Harry and Stamets, she's looking for a solution which will get the future she wants and is up against a rival who also wants time to end up how it wants, time after time after time after time.

    This is then, IMO, Magic To Make the Sanest Man go Mad written on a cosmic level when viewed at the simplest angle.
     
    JasonJ, CommanderRaytas and Cyrus like this.
  17. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Its probably got all sorts of amazing gizmos attached to it, but its operator is also kind of crazy by this point, or at least should be all things considered. And honestly, do you expect Gabrielle to care about cluing in a bunch of ghosts what her suit's full complement of tech is and explain how she got all its gizmos?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
    CommanderRaytas likes this.
  18. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2019
    FYI: the suit is black, not red. ;)
     
    ITDUDE likes this.
  19. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Are people actually still embarrassed about how silly Trek is capable of being after all this time? Has it really been any sillier than any other major media franchise that's been around as long across movies, TV, comic, books etc.over the past 50 years or so?

    Honestly, if anything Disco's storytelling has been pretty ambitious compared with those things you mention, and just because the backstory the writers hasn't been spoonfed to us, doesn't mean its laughable. IMHO, it means its open to interpretations to be puzzled out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  20. Galaxy

    Galaxy Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    50,000 light years. Voyager could average 1,000 light years per year.

    At Warp 9.9 (3029 times the speed of light) which a Galaxy class starship has difficulty achieving, it would still take over 16 years.

    And yes, Discovery jumped in an instant but it they are starting to give an explanation why that tech disappeared.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019