The Reality of Star Trek

[Captain Kathryn]

You're ignoring that Star Trek, particularly in its later forms, tells us that a Third World War (which nearly destroyed humanity), and first contact with aliens caused the people of Earth to re-evaluate their goals and they joined together to improve themselves and society.

If the first two world wars didn't do it, what makes you think a third one would? Is it the old saying, "Three time's the charm"? Then I can understand where you are coming from as far as how Star Trek Universe comes into being, but again, reality does paint a different picture.

I somehow believe that in Star Trek Enterprise episode "In the Mirror Darkly, " that would be the mentality of the people of earth at that time when survival, looking out for number one, and having the upper hand in all things like power is how anyone thinks they are going to get ahead.

However, in this reality, Biblical prophesies foretells one third of the earth burning up, and that was just to serve as a catalyst for the NWO and their mark of the beast system. Survival will be all that those people will be thinking about, and yet by adapting that mentality to be united with one cause, Star Trek is still no where in the picture. But there will be a gathering of the armies of the remaining parts of the world to battle the Lord upon His return with the saints at the end of the great tribulation period. ( Which is seven years, starting when they give the command to build the Third Temple in Jerusalem. )

They are already adapting the technology for the mark of the beast system, and that is the biochip to buy and sell in Europe. The biochip is being used elsewhere for medical information like in Mexico and security purposes in companies like GPS tagging. It is not the mark of the beast system yet, until the bio chips becomes the only means to buy & sell in this NWO, thus killing off those that refuse the mark because of the Biblical warning from God that those that take the mark are destined for the lake of fire.

Maybe the Lord will have His people trekking the stars when Satan and death has been done away with forever after they have been cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing in Biblical prophesies about that, but who knows? God only knows.

It's time like these that it wouldn't hurt for fans of Star Trek to do a little research on what direction the world is going and how it is lining up with Biblical prophesies. Maybe they will look as I do in the direction higher than the heavens to Heaven above and the hope of us getting there will not be by a starship, but by the hope in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness and His faithfulness that is bringing us there for all those that believe and put their trust in Him.

So... maybe Star Trek may happen when mankind is no longer broken and thus in no need of the Saviour, because they are saved and free to roam the universe for they will never be apart from Him.

Christians can dream after all.

Course, this is in according to my faith on how Star Trek could be, but I just don't see it happening when mankind is not perfect yet to do that trekking through the stars. Murphy's law will more likely come into play than anything else as our fallible nature will hinder us so.

Didn't fully read this until now.

Are you only disparaging the possibility of a space-faring future because you are religious? I don't care if you are...I really don't. I am just wondering if that is the real reason for your judgement?

But I am curious...if you are extremely devout...why are you drawn to watch Star Trek, which mostly abandons the possibility of an ultimate religion and God (unless you consider Q to be godlike).

Just curious. I don't mean any insult.

 

[iguana_tonante]

But the one thing I don't have to guess is that it's obvious you did not know the context of that statement and were just trying to be - sarcastic

"It was Communion time where you eat this wafer and you are eating the body of Christ and drinking His blood. My first impression was "Jesus Christ! This is a bunch of cannibals they've put me down among!" For some time I puzzled over this and puzzled over why they were saying these things, because the connection between what they were saying and reality was very tenuous. How the hell did Jesus become something to be eaten?"
Star Trek Creator by David Alexander (introduction by Majel Barrett Roddenberry), page 37

Gene Roddenbery continues how this was the crucial point in his life that made it "clear" to him "that religion was largely nonsense."

Obviously symbolism was a concept completely alien to him, therefore I find this kind of hilarious misinterpretation rather sad.

Bob

Actually, a whole bunch of denominations do believe it actually becomes the body of Christ, while retaining all the physical characteristic of bread. Catholic and Orthodox Churches, for example.

It's quite obvious Roddenberry was speaking sarcastically: he didn't actually believe there were eating the body of a man, he just highlighted the absurdity of such fantastic claims without any evidences, and that was one of the things that pushed him to realize that "religions were largely nonsense".

What is rather hilarious is that you completely missed his point, and went on ranting about how he missed the point.

 

[Melakon]

I wonder why the OP has been avoiding this thread for the last 4 days. It starts out as a Star Trek question, and the religion crap didn't show up until his second appearance.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

^^The first post contained text about religion though.

 

[Melakon]

^^The first post contained text about religion though.

Not specific religions. His first reply to someone was the first post in the thread to introduce words like Biblical, God, Lord, and later in the thread Jesus Christ is presented. And not as profanity. It was becoming a sermon.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Some people think that a utopia is a world where everybody is completely unselfish.

I say a utopia is a world where a completely selfish person and a completely unselfish person would behave in the exact same way. And that's the world that's far more likely than the world where everybody is unselfish.

Isn't Mr. Dawkins the prominent spokesperson of Atheism?

Richard Dawkins is to Atheism as Pat Robertson is to Christianity.

 

[R. Star]

The only world where people stop being selfish is a world that doesn't have people.

 

[T'Girl]

But, there was no actual damage done EVERYWHERE on the planet. If THAT were to happen...and the devastation literally covered the entire planet...we'd probably HAVE to ban together to help fix it.

The third world war killed about six percent of the Human race, but by the mid-21st century that could happen by destroying just the twenty-five biggest cities.

Just like with in the first two world wars there was probably vast areas of the Earth that were untouched by the war directly, although the world wide economy likely fell as a result.

It is difficult to imagine a large war having any part in bring the Human race together. On the other hand, the arrival of aliens (and alien technology) could have been responsible all by itself.

 

[soapp]

As for the bit about war and alien encounter bringing humans together, I wouldn't count on that.

9/11 was dramatic, for many people it has changed their lives for the better, but politically speaking we've become somewhat more paranoid and afraid. So instead of lets of out and explore, it had more of the lock the doors and turn on the TV effect. I mean we dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan, we're still not working for space exploration. If WW3 was like in Star Trek, I think the outcome would make things worse.

As for alien's contacting us, well nothing official and open yet. But if they did contact us, seems like the US government is keeping it hush hush, and other governments acknowledge the presence, but don't seem to do much about it. Technology is power, if the US got UFO tech, they ain't sharing it.
...

My best example is the ending of the movie Children of Men
***

Spoiler

****There has been no children for 18 or so years, everyone realizes it's pretty much the end of humans, and then a baby is born, in the middle of a battlefield. Everyone stops shooting, and look at the child in awe, then someone sees and opening and shoots, and everything resumes.***

****

With a sign of hope like that you'd expect people to band together, but old habits die hard, it's just a movie, but I feel it's a believable reaction.

 

[Stoek]

As for the bit about war and alien encounter bringing humans together, I wouldn't count on that.

My grandfather used to say, "Nobody changes unless they hurt badly enough."

I've always believed this is what happened to make the Trek future come about. The Post Atomic Horror period was so awful for so many people that they began to demand something different from themselves and their leaders. Now this by itself might not have led to anything, but right on the heels of that came a first contact with another race of beings that happened in a way that no government on Earth could ignore or claim didn't happen.

Ultimately while the details of how we get to the future shown in Star Trek are fictional, the fundamental idea of humanity making common cause, and focusing on something grander than mere survival I think is the only realistic prescription for humanities continuation.

And as fiction goes the fact that the bettered society shown in Trek only came about after a nuclear holocaust is what has always made Star Trek feel more believable and more possible than stories that proclaim that we just woke up one morning all perfect and enlightened.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

***

Spoiler

****There has been no children for 18 or so years, everyone realizes it's pretty much the end of humans, and then a baby is born, in the middle of a battlefield. Everyone stops shooting, and look at the child in awe, then someone sees and opening and shoots, and everything resumes.***

****

That's not exactly how I saw it. What I saw was that everybody stops shooting until the baby is out of harm's way. Once the baby is safe, fighting resumes.

 

[T'Girl]

The Post Atomic Horror period was so awful for so many people that they began to demand something different from themselves and their leaders. Now this by itself might not have led to anything, but right on the heels of that came a first contact with another race of beings

Didn't the "post-atomic horror" come after the arrival of the Vulcans, and not before?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Didn't the "post-atomic horror" come after the arrival of the Vulcans, and not before?

Yep, Trek messed up a bit on that. I always thought they added to much to the WWIII thing. Instead of keeping it straight forward and simple, it became really bloated and confusing.

Humans had a devastating war, are desperate, had enough, aliens arrive and they make a permanent change. That works by itself.

So even after a devasting war, discovery of life on other planets, and a visit from aliens with advanced tech, humans were still acting that stupid 16 years later?

Humans were supposed to be doing very badly, yet was functioning enough for them to build experimental space ships.

Nah, they added too many different stories to it.

 

[Push The Button]

Didn't the "post-atomic horror" come after the arrival of the Vulcans, and not before?

Yep, Trek messed up a bit on that. I always thought they added to much to the WWIII thing. Instead of keeping it straight forward and simple, it became really bloated and confusing.

Humans had a devastating war, are desperate, had enough, aliens arrive and they make a permanent change. That works by itself.

So even after a devasting war, discovery of life on other planets, and a visit from aliens with advanced tech, humans were still acting that stupid 16 years later?

Humans were supposed to be doing very badly, yet was functioning enough for them to build experimental space ships.

Nah, they added too many different stories to it.

Too many different writers, with no continuity editor to keep all of it straight, requiring lots of retconning to make it all fit together somehow. Sooner or later it becomes an unmanageable mess.

 

[Nine of Four]

***Warning!!! It is a depressing topic ***

It's not depressing, stupid!!

 

[R. Star]

^

Classy.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Too many different writers, with no continuity editor to keep all of it straight, requiring lots of retconning to make it all fit together somehow. Sooner or later it becomes an unmanageable mess.

True--they added way too much to what should have been a relatively simple concept. All the stuff they've added is overkill.

You should see the ret-conning on the Wikipedia pages surrounding this.

The Eugenics war was supposed to be a global nuclear conflict (1992 through 1996) that killed over 30 million. But that still wasn't WW III.

Then Voyager says the crew traveled back to earth in 1996 , but life seems normal--no mention of any eugenics war at all. It was supposed to be a global Conflict that involved the US.

According to TOS, military servicemen in 1996 should have been wearing red space-looking jump suits.

Then Past Tense from DS9 says that in 2024 America existed in some semi police state, and Europe is nearly falling apart because of protests, but at this point it should have already been in tatters.

Yet other timelines and episodes say that life in the US is completely normal--in 2032 they're playing baseball and such.

Then FC says WW III started 2026 and killed 600 million. Civilization is severely crippled, yet civilians are building experimental warp ships with scrap metal.

And then, 16 years after first contact with Vulcans and their technology and knowledge, apparently parts of the US is still in some depraved state, holding weird trials and with enough resources to supply their military with drugs.

Oh by the way, did you know that according to Voyager half of California doesn't exist in the 24th century because it sank in an earthquake in 2047?

Sometimes science fiction can be as bad as religious fundamentalism

 

[Melakon]

The difference, science fiction is real.

 

[1001001]

***Warning!!! It is a depressing topic ***

It's not depressing, stupid!!

Calling other posters "stupid" is not okay. You can disagree without namecalling.

Infraction for flaming.

 

[T'Girl]

Sooner or later it becomes an unmanageable mess.

That's likely taking it too far, while there are occasional contradictions, with a little thought the majority of Star Trek makes sense.

The Eugenics war was supposed to be a global nuclear conflict (1992 through 1996) that killed over 30 million. But that still wasn't WW III.

Agree, the eugenics war and the third world war are completely seperate events.

Then Voyager says the crew traveled back to earth in 1996 , but life seems normal--no mention of any eugenics war at all. It was supposed to be a global Conflict that involved the US.

I've always assumed that the eugenics war would have been concentrated in the parts of the world where the "supermen" gained power, and not involving America. We actually don't get involved in every war.

From 1998 through 2003 there was a major multi-country war in Africa that killed five and a half million people, most Americans never even heard of it. Easy to believe that there could be a major war ongoing elsewhere in the world and it wouldn't directly impact the average citizen in Los Angeles.

Then FC says WW III started 2026 and killed 600 million.

From Data's statements the third world war ended about the year 2053, I don't believe there's anything in canon concerning when it began. It could have been very brief and bloody, lasting only one or two years.

And then, 16 years after first contact with Vulcans and their technology and knowledge, apparently parts of the US is still in some depraved state, holding weird trials ...

It would be hard to say where in the world the "post-atomic horror" was supposed to have been located, since Q seemed particularly interested in Picard perhaps in France?

Oh by the way, did you know that according to Voyager half of California doesn't exist in the 24th century because it sank in an earthquake in 2047?

Nothing would seem to counterindicate this. I can't off hand remember any mention of LA in the various series post-21st century, the coastial plain could have subsided (would not exactly be "half").