The Reality of Star Trek

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Enow, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

    Feb 11, 2002
    Transporter buffer
    Enow - you've dragged the discussion away from the topic of Trek reality and into religious opinion. I've participated, as have others, but this thread needs to come back to a Trek-centered discussion at this point.
  2. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 26, 2002
    Thallus wasn't a secular historian. He asserted the existence of the Olympians and Titans as part of recorded history and tried to chronologically date the events of Greek mythology.
  3. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Sep 15, 2006
    Italy, EU
    "Mutually exclusive" applies only until it happens.[/QUOTE]So, never. Good.

    I don't think Trek was ever the point of this thread.
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Nov 22, 2012
    Melakon's grave
    *steps back in*

    You're absolutely right. Star Trek ceased to be the topic with Post #6, when Enow made his first reply, which was to my Post #2. That's when the topic suddenly changed to religion, and he later "apologizes" for misunderstanding my post, which was technically on topic, but he claimed was diverting off topic.

    *closes door again*
  5. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 9, 2009
    Thestral - Carmichael Industries
    Besides, was there even such a thing as "secular history" at that time?

    Also: everybody knows the truth about the apocalypse is that it's just a pissing match between two petulant brothers. I'm with Gabriel, personally.
  6. Coloratura

    Coloratura Unsung Aria Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    United States
    I'm with Jay and Silent Bob.

    As for the reality of Trek, while we may never see the kind of aliens we see on the show, or at all, I think humanity will eventually come together.
  7. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 9, 2009
    Thestral - Carmichael Industries
    I really need to see Dogma one of these days. I've been on kind of a supernatural bender over the last couple years anyway between running through Buffy, Angel, Dead Like Me, Joan of Arcadia, and currently Supernatural (one of these things is not like the others!) so it would fit right in.
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    House of Kang
    Is it Three have female protagonists and one doesn't. Did I guess right?
  9. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 9, 2009
    Thestral - Carmichael Industries
    Ooh, good thought. Actually, that's by far my biggest (and only real) problem with Supernatural, the lack of long-term female protagonists. I was mostly thinking Joan has a much less... cynical... view of Higher Powers. ;)
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 20, 2007
    inside teacake
    I think it has been coming together and I think humanity as a whole has been improving continually over the centuries. The standard that humanity aspires to keeps going up and up. Civil rights, expectation of and working toward raising basic living standards, accountability of government.. these things may seem a long way away in some situations but that this even causes people anguish and we expect that humanity should do better shows how far we've come.

    Trek gives us a picture of a humanity that has achieved the standards we can only dream about for the whole world, and a humanity that has even higher standards ("we work to better ourselves"). Sure this is unrealistic, and lots of Trek is unworkable when you start nutting it out but the aspiration itself is laudable.
  11. bptrav

    bptrav Ensign Newbie

    Aug 6, 2013
    I've always thought if we became capable of space travel/exploration like Star Trek, we would probably be more similar to a mix of Ferengi and Romulan than we would be to the Humans in the Trek universe.

    Maybe I'm just too pessimistic, but I haven't seen much to indicate humankind as a whole would ever be so utopian/peaceful. Of course no one can predict the future, but I don't human nature isn't something that will change overnight, no matter what happens.
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    That's a thing that people always (especially JJ Abrams) get wrong about Trek. The human society (outside the bridge of the Enterprise, or in general Starfleet personel) is SUPPOSED to be alien to us. Human's in Trek are supposed to evolved to a higher level that is entirely different from what we are now. No conflicts, no greed, no money, aspiration to constantly better themselves. You don't like that utopian idea? Well then don't do Star Trek.

    Saying "I find it silly that they don't use money, it's impossible." is like saying "I find it silly that they beam down to a planet and appear out of thin air, it's impossible.". That's just basic stuff that is part of Trek.
  13. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

    May 7, 2010
    star trek humans are all canadians
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    That utopian idea came into play with TNG.
  15. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

    Jul 5, 2006
    Left Bank
  16. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

    Nov 3, 2001
    In a Bozo Nightmare
    So the basic argument here is that the idealistic future of Star Trek will never come to pass because the Bible says otherwise?

  17. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Sep 10, 2012
    USS Berlin
    I just dropped in after I invested my two cents in a neighboring thread, but it seems these two cents might serve a good purpose here, too.

    Why did God kick Adam, Eve and the Snake out of paradise? Whether you interpret the text literal, as a metaphor or an analogy, the decisive essence remains: Because he didn't want to be in the company of people that were unwilling to assume responsibility for their actions, and, worse, had no problem to see somebody else suffer for their mistakes.

    I'd say mankind has still has to overcome this general, immature, childish and evil attitude before the future of Star Trek could become "science" and not just remain (utopian) "fiction".

    @ J. Allen

    Just curious what you tried to suggest saying Jesus was "captor" and "abuser". According to the story he was the one captured and abused - and now I'm confused. :rolleyes:

  18. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Feb 18, 2009
    Which is ironic, because Trek says the exact opposite- an ideal future does happen without any help from religion.

    Social and environmental problems were solved because people put their minds together and worked hard to solve them, mainly through science and technology (So Trek says.)

    Advanced technology feeds and clothes people easily, because they figured out how to do it. There's no selfish competetion for resources and money, because technology provides basic needs anyway.

    At least that's what Trek seems to be saying.
  19. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Jun 19, 2013
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    Well, that's what Roddenberry seems to have been saying late in his life. However, Star Trek is not reducible to Roddenberry's vision, and many other people have worked with that vision, stretched it, altered it, and interrogated it. By now, I don't think the utopia of the future is so much something that we should strive for as a model by which we can critique what we have now. For instance, rather than just accepting scarcity as universal or believing that technology will solve scarcity in the future, we can ask how technological development is addressing the fundamental needs of individuals and communities.
  20. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 28, 2001
    SB-31, Daran V
    I resent that you seem to be implying that I somehow endorse the behaviors you list above when I absolutely do not. Nor did I say so anywhere in my first post to this thread. And an apologiy from you probably would not be out of line here.

    Of course those things are bad. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that. I did not say otherwise. That's why we have constructed societies the way we have.

    What I am saying is that these things are part of the spectrum of homo sapiens. Of course, we don't want these things to happen, but they do. Not because the species is somehow "broken", but because it just is what it is. We like to call these acts and the people "inhuman", but my point is that this is just a state of denial. The problem is that these people ARE human.

    If you accept that our species can produce Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, or Stephen Hawking, you must also accept that the same species can produce Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden, or Timothy McVeigh.

    Bringing this back to Star Trek: Roddenberry was being very naive if he really believed that the human race would somehow grow out of this state in the next couple of hundred years. Humans are humans, have been for thousands of years, and will continue to be. We will continue to try and build better societal constructs to encourage better behavior. Some of those might work better than others. Some of them won't. But, at the end of the day we will still be the same brilliant, ignorant, cruel, compassionate, stuborn, yielding, sad, joyous, race that we are born to be.