The Real Role Model

[Mareika]

Hallo Katinka. I`m glad to have another Chakotayfan here in this thread. Sadly to say, that there are much more posters who dislike him. I think he`s a great character. He was the only reason for me to become a Trek fan. He brought me to Voyager. I agree on some of the posts on this site. In season 5 and 6 the writers didn`t give him much to do. And there have been some situations where he could stand against Janeway. It`s a pitty, that the writers didn´t develope some of the Chakotay arcs just like the Chakotay/Tuvok tensions, the Marquisarc, the Torres/Chakotay relationsship ...But I can`t imagine Voyager without him.

Chakotay - in the hands of another actor - would have been a fantastic character.

Disagree- Robert Beltran did a fantastic job. And he`s very good looking, charming, masculine.

I don't get that either. I had never heard of Beltran before but I thought he was a great choice for Chakotay. I wish he had done more TV/movies after that.

Katinka, Robert has been in many leading roles before Voyager. Some of these movies are still wellknown among the fans- Night of the comet, Eating Raoul. To name just a few. After Voyager he mainly was on stage in LA and San Francisco and directed some plays. He`s also Visiting Professor at UCLA. But I wish I could watch him on screen once again.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Chakotay falls victim from the lack of interest from the writers and producers and their need to continue to stack up the infallibility aspect of Janeway. Clearly there's something about the man's ethics which are contagious, and he was a character I liked right under B'Elanna. Tuvok was my favorite character on Voyager, and I wish there were more conflict between Chakotay and him. Credit to Beltran; he did presented some resentment of Tuvok every time he was near him but the writers didn't take the bait. Something I'm sure he must've been fuming inside because there were physical reactions and cues which were present on the show by him.

The indian jargon was just as bad as treknobabble, I wasn't interested in his spirit walking or other racist stuff the writers had in their heads. I would've liked to know more about the man, and what made him drawn to the Maquis or who was he before the Maquis or what he saw in Tuvok where he would bring him in his group?
As for role models, Beltran did what he could to make his character interesting and I must give a lot of credit to Roxann Dawson for keeping that magic going even til the end of the series. Her eyes and body language tell it all about what she, B'Elanna, personally felt about the man, and there's one great Chakotay episode which for me sums why he's an unfortunate lost character in "Distant Origins."
His monologue about ancestry was so moving only the writers from Voyager can allow that Dinosaur Queen to be so ignorant and ruin what could've been the best Voyager episode ever... which there aren't any, but it was a misfire I think the show could never recover from. Chakotay appeared to be a character who had a lot of pride, and great ethics who wouldn't be dictated from what the situation was, but what he truly believed was right. Only Voyager can f^ck up a character like that... who had all that potential.

 

[Katinka]

And he`s very good looking, charming, masculine.

I couldn't agree more

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think it's unmasculine to be supportive of a strong woman, especially in a military context.

Though I guess I'm in the minority that I don't see the point in labeling things masculine or feminine. No reason someone can't love sports and also want to play with dolls.

I don't think Chakotay was 'Weak' as a person. He was loyal and he was able to keep the Maquis loyal. The writing of Chakotay, and the performance were weak.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Chuckles does indeed have a nice smile, I'll grant you that.

He is easy on the eye. He's a nice looking man. He would be likable IRL.

But as a character, totally yawn worthy.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

I think Chakotay is a good role model. But one idea I do not see so much is that Chakotay is able to stand up to the stronger woman (see: "Equinox") while still supporting Janeway most of the time. Yes, the idea of a female Captain is good as a role model for females (with a strong woman), but a female Captain had already been done before on four or more occasions by my count. The unamed female Captain of the Saratoga in Star Trek IV, Captain Tricia Scott in the First Season TNG episode "Conspiracy ", Erika Hernandez of the Columbia in ENT, and finally Captain Rachel Garret of the Enterprise-C in the Third Season TNG episode "Yesterdays Enterprise". The fact that female Captains have been tried previously does not make more a bad idea.

@PhaserLightShow

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think Chakotay is a good role model. But one idea I do not see so much is that Chakotay is able to stand up to the stronger woman (see: "Equinox") while still supporting Janeway most of the time. Yes, the idea of a female Captain is good as a role model for females (with a strong woman), but a female Captain had already been done before on three or more occasions by my count. The unamed female Captain of the Saratoga in Star Trek IV, Captain Tricia Scott in the First Season TNG episode "Conspiracy ", and finally Captain Rachel Garret of the Enterprise-C in the Third Season TNG episode "Yesterdays Enterprise".

@PhaserLightShow

OMFG THREE WHOLE FEMALE CAPTAINS!!

You're right. We didn't need any more. It was a glut.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yes, the idea of a female Captain is good as a role model for females (with a strong woman), but a female Captain had already been done before on three or more occasions by my count. The unamed female Captain of the Saratoga in Star Trek IV, Captain Tricia Scott in the First Season TNG episode "Conspiracy ", and finally Captain Rachel Garret of the Enterprise-C in the Third Season TNG episode "Yesterdays Enterprise".

So, by your flawless reasoning, three single movie or episode appearances by actresses in brief supporting roles means there's no need for a female captain as a lead in a series or film ever again?

Alrighty then... here's a list of 192 Starfleet captains, about 98% (quick estimate) of which are male:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Starfleet_captains

I guess we can wrap up any plans for series or movies featuring male captains ever again, then, right? I mean, if it's purely about not doing what's been done before and not some weird hangup about women being cast as captains or lead actors in a series, or some lame complaint about political correctness or feminists, of course. Because that would look pretty bad if it were.

We really dodged a bullet there. A masculine bullet.

 

[Kilana2]

It would be great to have a female Captain who is in a same-sex relationship. For some it would be too much to bear, but not for me. But please without clichés.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Whadaya mean we had 4 seasons of J/7 already

 

[Lynx]

It would be great to have a female Captain who is in a same-sex relationship. For some it would be too much to bear, but not for me. But please without clichés.

There's always the risk that it would turn the show into just another political correct spectacle. As it is, there is already too much political correctness in all TV shows today which I don't like because it interfers with good storytelling.

Besides that, one of the main characters in "Stargate Universe" was in a same-sex relationship and it didn't make that horrible show any better.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So. No gays because we already have too many of them

How 'bout we have a captain who has a love relationship, you know like how Picard had his Vash fling and how Janeway had Workforce guy and how Kirk had take a number. And guess what sometimes that love interest has the same genitals as the captain.

This is Star Trek, we're supposed to be able to handle that stuff not wring our hands over politics. It's not POLITICS when Riker and Deanna get married and it's not politics if Deanna had decided to marry someone who happened to be a woman. It's love.

 

[hux]

Gay characters are weird and pervy.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to become unhealthily obsessed with a character who's supposed to be an innocent, one year old child.

 

[Lynx]

Gay characters are weird and pervy.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to become unhealthily obsessed with a character who's supposed to be an innocent, one year old child.

That was a very nasty comment!

First, I never wrote that gay characters are weird and pervy.

My comment was a comment about political correctness as such and the trend in certain movies and series to sneak in political correct messages in all possible ways.Where I live, there are certain political correct messages in everything which is a reason that I'm tired of it.

Second, I'm not "unhealty obsessed" with Naomi Wildman who was the only child in the series which fits your description.

 

[Terok Nor]

I don't see Janeway, a mentally unbalanced tyrant, or Chakotay, a passive ass kisser, as role models in the slightest. At a push I'd give the edge to Janeway for being a badass at times but she was a complete psycho for the most part.

If anyone was to be considered a role model I'd pick Seven. Hard working, intelligent and self sufficient. I could make arguments for B'Elanna and Kes (prior to her mental breakdown) being great role models too. I guess Tom was a good example of someone turning their life around.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

That was a very nasty comment!

First, I never wrote that gay characters are weird and pervy.

My comment was a comment about political correctness as such and the trend in certain movies and series to sneak in political correct messages in all possible ways.Where I live, there are certain political correct messages in everything which is a reason that I'm tired of it.

Seriously?! Having 100% of all Star Trek romances heterosexual is acceptable but to get ONE gay romance in Star Trek and you say it's political correctness?

You are wrong and you are offensive. You know there are gay folk reading this bbs, do you think for one second how it feels to be gay and read a gay relationship on tv is about political correctness but a hetero one is not?

 

[Lynx]

Seriously?! Having 100% of all Star Trek romances heterosexual is acceptable but to get ONE gay romance in Star Trek and you say it's political correctness?

You are wrong and you are offensive. You know there are gay folk reading this bbs, do you think for one second how it feels to be gay and read a gay relationship on tv is about political correctness but a hetero one is not?

You are blowing this up out of proportion.

Anyway, my mistake. I take back my statement. I should have known better than to comment the way I did.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's not the first time you've pulled your stealth homophobia.

 

[stardream]

Back to Chakotay.

I never thought of him as a role model which is an interesting take. I do think of him as a team player which I suppose in it's way can be thought of as being a role model to those who have difficulty playing with others.

 

[hux]

That was a very nasty comment

I'm just screwing with you. I don't think you sit in a basement pasting pictures of Jennifer Lien's head onto dolls whilst dressed as baby or anything.

Homosexuality should be a nothing issue for Star Trek. People should be lovin' who they're lovin'.

I'm off to cover myself in syrup and tweet Jeri Ryan.