The Quickest Path to "Star Trek: Picard"?

[Lord Garth]

Star Trek: Picard depends upon your knowing TNG and having a passing familiarity with TOS, DS9, and VOY. Not to mention the movies.

Which episodes do you think connect directly to any of Picard's three seasons? I might want to show some people Picard and I'm trying to figure out how to get them there the fastest, if I have to take short-cuts.

I could come up with a list of my own (and eventually will sooner or later), but it's late at night as of this typing, and I'm interested in other people's takes.

 

[NCC-73515]

Assignment Earth, Datalore, Elementary Dear Data, Measure of a Man, The Offspring, Best of Both Worlds, Family, Preemptive Strike, FC, When it Rains, Scorpion, The Gift, Endgame, NEM

 

[grimorie]

I'm not as familiar with TNG, but I have seen Ensign Ro before and loved Michelle Forbes in her other acting roles. In Imposters, I fully fell in love with her character and went back to watch her first episode on TNG: Ensign Ro, and her last episode: Preemptive Strike, and then I consider Imposters the final in the Ro Laren trilogy.

I'd also like to include I, Borg in the TNG recommendations to introduce Hugh (I'm not sure whether I would recommend the second time we see Hugh on TNG despite loving Hugh).

I'm more familiar with Voyager and Seven of Nine's arc (if you only watch Seven of Nine's arc episodes + Year of Hell, the Killing Game... and most of s4, Voyager feels like a very coherent show). So for VOY: The Three-parter Borg opener: Scorpion I and II, The Gift, The Raven, One, Hope and Fear, Dark Frontier (the Borg Queen's bio-assimilation is first mentioned here), Survival Instinct, Collective (introducing Icheb), Child's Play, Imperfection (where Icheb's cortical node disappeared to), Inside Man (foreshadowing how people in the Alpha Quadrant would treat the Borg), and Endgame.

DS9 is more complicated since the Dominion War is almost a series-spanning thing, and I haven't memorized DS9 episodes even though it's my other favorite Trek. I feel like when you start watching some DS9, especially the interesting episodes, you end up watching all of DS9.

 

[Lord Garth]

I took a super-super short-cut doing a mini-rewatch of DS9 once I realized the Dominion was in PIC Season 3.

I ended up re-watching:
"The Jem'Hadar"
"The Search, Part I"
"The Search, Part II"
"What You Leave Behind"

Basically, when we first saw the Dominion and when we last saw them. It's all I had time for.

Of course, I already knew the show, so I could do something crazy like that. Since we only see the Changelings in PIC S3, and not the Jem'Hadar or the Vorta, I was thinking of going with just "The Adversary". That way you get a sense of who the Changelings are, "They're shape-shifters!" and they know what they need to know... for Picard.

 

[Lord Garth]

"The Adversary" and "Inquisition". They get to see who the Changelings are in one episode, and they get to see who Section 31 is in one episode.

Then, during Picard Season 3, they know who the Changelings are and they know who Section 31 is, when they find out who infected who. Just from those two episodes, you can also understand how Starfleet wasn't on the same page as Section 31 (at least on the surface), they'd want help to cure the Changelings... but one of them (Vadic) wouldn't be satisfied with that and would want revenge.

And then I'm not getting into the weeds of DS9, spoiling major things that we don't already find out about in Picard, and I'm not making DS9 seem more important to PIC than it actually is. Otherwise, it would feel like I'd be misrepresenting what to expect about how much of DS9 is actually followed up upon.

 

[FederationHistorian]

“Assignment: Earth”, “Q Who”, “Best of Both Worlds”, “Descent", “Preemptive Strike”, “All Good Things…”“Homefront”, “Paradise Lost”, “What We Left Behind”, “Endgame”, GEN, NEM

 

[Bad Thoughts]

No DS9 is necessary for understanding Picard. Any references to the great series are superficial at best. All you need to know is that the Dominion exists, its is spearheaded by a race of beings that can change form (Changelings), and the Federation was part of an alliance that fought against the Dominion and its allies in a conflict known as the Dominion War. All you need to know about Section 31 is that it is a secret organization that does things that are inhumane and against the law. Nothing about what happens in Picard requires any deeper knowledge than this. All the references are indirect and shallow. indeed, the main character that is a Changeling is perhaps references once, and his name isn't even said.

 

[Lord Garth]

Any references to the great series are superficial at best. All you need to know is that the Dominion exists, its is spearheaded by a race of beings that can change form (Changelings), and the Federation was part of an alliance that fought against the Dominion and its allies in a conflict known as the Dominion War. All you need to know about Section 31 is that it is a secret organization that does things that are inhumane and against the law. Nothing about what happens in Picard requires any deeper knowledge than this.

That's telling. Over 30 years of being a fan has taught me that showing is better than telling. I'll have to do some telling, since I'll be showing snapshots, but I want to cut down on that as much as possible.

I'll meet you halfway in that I think it should be kept to a minimum. But I'm not going to opt out of exposing them to any DS9. It might make them more likely to watch the series at some point.

And the reality is, it's easier to show someone 30 episodes (plus whatever I'll be adding on top of it) than 176. And PIC is the more likely of the two they'll go with, due to the lower episode count. If I show them a small sampling of DS9, while they're watching something else they want to see (like Picard in this instance), it'll make DS9 something they want to see as well, instead of feeling like something they have to see.

That's my goal. Get them to want to watch something, instead of feel like they have to watch something. If you make it feel like they have to watch it, you've lost them.

 

[James Cole]

Which episodes do you think connect directly to any of Picard's three seasons? I might want to show some people Picard and I'm trying to figure out how to get them there the fastest, if I have to take short-cuts.

It might help to know more about the intended audience. What do you think they'll like/dislike about Star Trek? And why specifically PICARD?

That's my goal. Get them to want to watch something, instead of feel like they have to watch something. If you make it feel like they have to watch it, you've lost them.

I know you like PS1 and PS3 almost equally, but they are very very different. It might almost be helpful to pick one of the two (or at the very least cut PS2) and then pick supporting episodes based on that.

Maybe start at what you think the max viable number of episodes is to watch to get the person/people hooked? Then we all can run an elimination round like Farscape One has done with the best/worst episodes of the seasons threads?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That's telling. Over 30 years of being a fan has taught me that showing is better than telling. I'll have to do some telling, since I'll be showing snapshots, but I want to cut down on that as much as possible.

It has nothing to do with the efficacy of showing over telling. It is simply recognizing that the themes, narrative structures, character relationships and details have almost no measurable impact on Picard. War, shape-shifters, and corrupt quasi-government agencies aren't specific to DS9, and Picard doesn't use them in any meaningful way as they were present in DS9. Of course, I wholeheartedly recommend people watch DS9. However, there is no reason for anyone to delay watching Picard, if that is their intent, to ponder Bashir infiltrating Sloan's mind. ETA: and I don't think we should fool ourselves into thinking that Matalas made some special effort to honor DS9's accomplishments when crafting Picard.

 

[Skywalker]

I managed to put together a list of 35 stories, including three movies, that I think set up all of the important elements later to be found in PIC. I feel like I could have included a couple more, but I was trying to keep it as brief as possible; I think even 35 episodes of homework would be more than the average new viewer would want to go through. Still...

TNG: Encounter at Farpoint (introduces the TNG crew and Q)
TNG: Where No One Has Gone Before (introduces the Traveler)
TNG: The Battle (explores Picard's history with the Stargazer)
TNG: Datalore (introduces Lore)
TNG: The Neutral Zone (introduces the Romulans, sets up the Borg)
TNG: Elementary, Dear Data (introduces Moriarty)
TNG: The Measure of a Man (introduces Bruce Maddox)
TNG: Q Who (introduces the Borg and Q's relationship with Guinan)
TNG: The Offspring (explores Data's desire to create a child)
TNG: The Best of Both Worlds I & II (intrdouces Locutus)
TNG: Family (deals with Picard's recovery from assimilation and reconciliation with Robert)
TNG: Brothers (continues Data's relationship with Lore, introduces the emotion chip)
TNG: Ensign Ro (introduces Ro and her relationship with Picard)
TNG: I Borg (introduces Hugh)
TNG: Tapestry (explores Picard's past and his relationship with Q)
TNG: Descent I & II (completes the Lore storyline)
TNG: Attached (explores Picard and Crusher's feelings for each other)
TNG: Journey's End (Wesley becomes a Traveler)
TNG: Preemptive Strike (Ro betrays Picard)
TNG: All Good Things... (Q seemingly leaves Picard, Picard joins his crew for poker)
TOS: Assignment: Earth (introduces the Watchers)
Generations (explores Picard's prioritizing Starfleet over having a family, Data gets an emotion chip)
DS9: The Adversary (introduces Changelings and their infiltration of Starfleet)
DS9: Inquisition (introduces Section 31)
First Contact (introduces the Borg queen)
VOY: The Gift (introduces the deassimilated Seven of Nine)
VOY: The Raven (Seven struggles with being separated from the Collective, Tuvok helps her)
VOY: Hope and Fear (Seven questions whether she wants to return to Earth)
VOY: Dark Frontier (explores Seven's past and how she was assimilated)
VOY: Collective (introduces Icheb)
VOY: Child's Play (develops Seven and Icheb's mother/child relationship)
VOY: Endgame (Voyager returns to Earth, the Borg are crippled)
Nemesis (introduces B-4, Data dies, the Romulans are left in disarray)

 

[Lord Garth]

It has nothing to do with the efficacy of showing over telling. It is simply recognizing that the themes, narrative structures, character relationships and details have almost no measurable impact on Picard. War, shape-shifters, and corrupt quasi-government agencies aren't specific to DS9, and Picard doesn't use them in any meaningful way as they were present in DS9. Of course, I wholeheartedly recommend people watch DS9. However, there is no reason for anyone to delay watching Picard, if that is their intent, to ponder Bashir infiltrating Sloan's mind. ETA: and I don't think we should fool ourselves into thinking that Matalas made some special effort to honor DS9's accomplishments when crafting Picard.

Thanks for the input and helping me to weigh the pros and cons.

It might help to know more about the intended audience. What do you think they'll like/dislike about Star Trek? And why specifically PICARD?


I know you like PS1 and PS3 almost equally, but they are very very different. It might almost be helpful to pick one of the two (or at the very least cut PS2) and then pick supporting episodes based on that.

Maybe start at what you think the max viable number of episodes is to watch to get the person/people hooked? Then we all can run an elimination round like Farscape One has done with the best/worst episodes of the seasons threads?

If I have to go with only one season, it's going to be PIC Season 3. Especially since most of what I'll show them beforehand is TNG. My intention is to show all three seasons, but that depends on a number of factors I'm not going to get into.

What I'm thinking of doing is showing TNG (and VOY) episodes that best sum up each of the characters and each of the adversaries relevant to PIC. Give a complete picture before diving in.

Just to give an example: I'd like to them to know what Beverly Crusher is really like and what makes her tick before going into Picard Season 3. As opposed to just episodes like "The Best of Both Worlds" which are pivotal TNG episodes and I would show, but don't go into who she is. And there's no way anyone would ever be able to get a sense of the character from the movies. So that makes showing key episodes with her even more important.

I managed to put together a list of 35 stories)

35 is a good number. 35 plus Picard's 30 gives 65 episodes... the same episode count as Discovery. In addition, the barrier of "What will I show them in preparation for Picard?" will be something I'll have mapped out.

I don't know if it'll be the final number I'll go with, but it's a good number.

I'm more familiar with Voyager and Seven of Nine's arc (if you only watch Seven of Nine's arc episodes + Year of Hell, the Killing Game... and most of s4, Voyager feels like a very coherent show). So for VOY: The Three-parter Borg opener: Scorpion I and II, The Gift, The Raven, One, Hope and Fear, Dark Frontier (the Borg Queen's bio-assimilation is first mentioned here), Survival Instinct, Collective (introducing Icheb), Child's Play, Imperfection (where Icheb's

I would show at least key Seven of Nine episodes from the fourth season, similar to what I did during my own initial re-watch before Picard. You're right, it does form an arc.

I'll also add to that "Dark Frontier", "Someone to Watch Over Me", and whatever else from S5-S7 springs to mind. Definitely "Endgame" since it shows what happened to the Borg Queen before we see her again in Picard.

 

[Lord Garth]

It might help to know more about the intended audience. What do you think they'll like/dislike about Star Trek? And why specifically PICARD?

Someone I'll very likely be living with in the future. I won't go into any more detail than that. They've always wanted to watch Star Trek, but is worried about there being too much of it. I plan to show them some of TOS and TNG. PIC is a follow-up to TNG. So it makes sense that it would eventually come into the equation. There's the context.

I'll also want to re-watch Picard from time-to-time (similar to what I already do with the TOS Movies and FC), so if they're up to speed we can watch it together and I won't have to explain absolutely everything.

 

[FederationHistorian]

No DS9 is necessary for understanding Picard. Any references to the great series are superficial at best. All you need to know is that the Dominion exists, its is spearheaded by a race of beings that can change form (Changelings), and the Federation was part of an alliance that fought against the Dominion and its allies in a conflict known as the Dominion War.

I chose the DS9 episodes I did for a reason.

In “The Adversary”, the Changelings last words, according to Odo was “It’s too late. We’re everywhere.”

Where as with "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost", the Changelings make it to Earth, and then one of the Changelings say to Sisko that there are only four of them and that its more than enough to create enough fear to destroy Starfleet.

The former is too vague, while the latter tells you how many Changelings are around and how much chaos they have caused with such a small number.

So, when people watch PIC after watching those episodes of DS9, the viewers will understand how both the Federation and the Changelings behave towards each other. And with a larger number of Changeling this time in PIC, something big is going to happen, which are the Frontier Day attacks.

Also, seeing the Romulans work alongside the Federation in the Dominion War, along with the events of NEM, help give context to Picard's rant in the series premiere.

Its all very sensible.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Trying to bridge the two series based on the Changeling infiltration is not very compelling. Deception and espionage are hard-wired into the shapeshifter archetype, and along with it comes the moral challenges that come with having "enemies among us." None of that is really relevant in Picard, and all you need to know about the Dominion is told to you during the season--and it does so without really giving the specifics of DS9.

If there are episodes that would at least enliven the viewing of Picard, they would be Behind the Lines and Chimera. Both episodes go deep into the primal instinct to exist non-corporeally in the Great Link. Those aspects aren't present in Picard either, but at least those two episodes would create a contrast, suggesting why the Changelings would be uniquely embittered having had their ability to assume new shapes altered.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm big on the character beats making the most impact. Unfortunately, "The Concise & Qualitative Path to Star Trek: Picard" sounds like the title of a college essay, not a thread on the board.

I'm giving TNG/DS9/VOY a haircut, I'm not shaving its head. We'll just have an undercut going on with the DS9 section.

 

[Skywalker]

I almost included the first part of TNG's "Birthright" two-parter on my list specifically to serve as a bridge between TNG and DS9, so that people aren't confused about the DS9 setting when they get to "The Adversary" and because it has some good Data character development (his new ability to dream), but I left it out because it's primarily a Worf episode and ends on a cliffhanger that really has nothing to do with trying to set up PIC.

 

[James Cole]

Just to give an example: I'd like to them to know what Beverly Crusher is really like and what makes her tick before going into Picard Season 3. As opposed to just episodes like "The Best of Both Worlds" which are pivotal TNG episodes and I would show, but don't go into who she is. And there's no way anyone would ever be able to get a sense of the character from the movies. So that makes showing key episodes with her even more important.

Ok, I'd suggest "The Arsenal of Freedom" -- it's a rare great season 1 episode, plus it introduces more color on Picard/Crusher. Also "Allegiance".

Someone I'll very likely be living with in the future. I won't go into any more detail than that. You can read between the lines. They've always wanted to watch Star Trek, but is worried about there being too much of it. I plan to show them some of TOS and TNG. PIC is a follow-up to TNG. So it makes sense that it would eventually come into the equation. There's the context.

Pacing can definitely be an issue with any older series. Maybe the other person can also introduce a series to you? And then alternate off to avoid burn out?

I know even when I'm watching by myself, it's very rare I burn through one series without having a few others to alternate off with. Usually it only happens when I have to race a "this show disappears" at the end of the month ultimatum.

 

[Lord Garth]

I know even when I'm watching by myself, it's very rare I burn through one series without having a few others to alternate off with. Usually it only happens when I have to race a "this show disappears" at the end of the month ultimatum.

Already happening. I'm showing her Mad Men, she's showing me Downton Abbey.

I also now know more about Two-and-a-Half Men than I ever wanted to know...

 

[James Cole]

I also now know more about Three-and-a-Half Men than I ever wanted to know...

Ah good luck

Comedy wise have you ever checked out COMMUNITY, THE GOOD PLACE, or PARTY DOWN? Might add some variety...