• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discussion

Grading

  • Excellent

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Above average

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • Average

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Below average

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Poor

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Total voters
    24
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Thoughts -

What happened to Lucy when she fell down the rabbit hole? Did we ever see her out/back in the real world? I guess 6 just kind of forgot about her when he turned to 313.

What was the point of Schizoid 2 - that when his wife was awake, he was somehow not altogether himself?

Why were they spying on/killing the dreamers if you needed a dreamer to keep the Village alive? Because they might try to break the illusion/therapy? What was 'treatment' for - part of therapy presumably?

Why did 6 have 11-12 kill 909? A loyalty test? An attempt to turn him straight as 6 later pretty much demands that 11-12 procreate (with a female)?

Did all the people who 'died' in the Village just go back to their normal lives? And if they had an unpleasant death in the Village, was their therapy incomplete?

Just passively and patiently letting 313 take the pills undercut 6 as the hero - bad editing. 2 should have offered the pills, 6 reach for them, but 313 grab them first and take them before 6 could stop her. As it's edited, he doesn't seem bothered to react or try to stop her which is just bad for a hero/lead.

Elements of Wonderland (people falling down the rabbit hole), Oz/Dallas (it's all a dream), Star Trek's "The Enemy Within" (Schizoid's bad 6 and good 6 must combine to be a whole 6). Also the ending was very "Devil's Advocate" (ah, vanity, definitely my favorite sin).

In the end, in the real world, did he go to a new job on the Purpose floor? Doesn't look like he went back to his old job on the lower glass-window floors. So he's higher up in the company now that he's running the Village? Or just because he's now specifically looking for people to recruit there and 'fix'?

And yes, the ending image of 6 and 313 was very disturbing, presumably deliberately so.

As others have said - doesn't touch the original. But I found it pretty interesting unto itself.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

What happened to Lucy when she fell down the rabbit hole? Did we ever see her out/back in the real world?
The "Lucy" in the village died and the Lucy in the real world was reintegrated with the counterpart that died.

Why were they spying on/killing the dreamers if you needed a dreamer to keep the Village alive? Because they might try to break the illusion/therapy? What was 'treatment' for - part of therapy presumably?
One person is needed to generate the village and that was Number Two's comatose wife. When she was awake, her mind was no longer fully dedicated to maintaining the illusion and so holes started to appear. People who talk about the real world are a threat to the village and have to be dealt with so that the illusion of life in the village isn't undermined.

Did all the people who 'died' in the Village just go back to their normal lives? And if they had an unpleasant death in the Village, was their therapy incomplete?
Yes and yes.

In the end, in the real world, did he go to a new job on the Purpose floor? Doesn't look like he went back to his old job on the lower glass-window floors. So he's higher up in the company now that he's running the Village? Or just because he's now specifically looking for people to recruit there and 'fix'?
Michael is in chage now in place of Mr. Curtis. He's also monitoring himself as "Number Two".
 
Last edited:
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

The "S" of the company turned around itself on the computer display, becoming a "2".
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

^^ I liked that a lot, nice touch...

It's so fundamentally different from the original that it's hard to compare them... other than the numbers and the Village it might as well have been unrelated to the original at all. I compared it to nBSG before, but it's a more-fundamental reimagining than that.

It was OK overall, but w/o McKellan I doubt I'd have stayed.
flamingjester4fj.gif
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Michael is in chage now in place of Mr. Curtis. He's also monitoring himself as "Number Two".

Am I correct in assuming that Michael can "jack in" to the Matr...uh, Village...and experience it *as* Six? Kind of like what they did in The Thirteenth Floor?
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Am I correct in assuming that Michael can "jack in" to the Matr...uh, Village...and experience it *as* Six?
Remember, he's Two now, and no, I don't think he can jack in. I got the impression that both Michael and Two are simply in positions of authority and don't have any special powers or privileges beyond that. Two is a part of Michael that is caught up in the illusion of the village and all Michael can do is monitor his counterpart from the outside. If Two's belief in the village starts to crack, then he'll find himself becoming Michael again. With his new awareness as Michael, he can either be in the real world or in the village. That's not "jacking in" in the conventional sense since Two has to initiate this process, not Michael.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Just finished watching the last part. Wow...this was some kind of fucked up. The Village as a therapy program? :lol: So is Summakor just using this as an end unto itself? Meaning, are they acting as an agent of the government? Or are they a private company that people can willingly go to, to get therapy?

Who would have thought that the original Prisoner - for all its wacked out 60's sensibilities - was actually the more coherent, logical version of the two? ;)

And that last scene with 313 basically a drooling vegetable... :(

Side note: I swear I recognized some of the sets from Charlie Jade. (No surprise, since both that show and the new Prisoner were filmed in South Africa.) The desert sand dunes, plus some of the Summakor sets, I swear I recognized. ('Vexcor' in Charlie Jade, Summakor here)
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Summa=Soma?

Or perhaps the 'sum' of all the securitycam footage they were assigned to monitor. AFAIK, the Village was Curtis Blake's pet project, and not all of Summakor was in on it.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Maybe Tricia Helfer should've showed up at the end and said, "You're not Six -- you're Seven, the Daniel. I'm Six." :p
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

What happened to Lucy when she fell down the rabbit hole? Did we ever see her out/back in the real world?
The "Lucy" in the village died and the Lucy in the real world was reintegrated with the counterpart that died.

I don't remember that bit. AFAIK, the only time we ever see Lucy after she jumps down the hole was the prerecorded message that she had left behind for Michael (in the real world).

Another question: That was Michael's apartment that was bombed, wasn't it? I thought Lucy was there at the time and she was killed in the blast...
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

^ Watched it again. Yes, that was Michael's apartment. Lucy was recording a cellphone message warning Michael that she's not safe to be around and to stay away from Summakor, then she heard something and the recorded message got cut off. Around the same time in the village, 4-15 jumped into the hole, then the apartment exploded. Michael goes up and it looks like he tells the fireman that there's a woman in his apartment, then the fireman shakes his head and says he's sorry. Michael then walks away.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Michael is in chage now in place of Mr. Curtis. He's also monitoring himself as "Number Two".

Incidentally this whole 6 taking over aspect actually rather closely mirrors the events of Fall Out in which the Village offers Number 6 the opportunity to lead them. In this case he took up the offer (though I would suspect the emotional connection with 313 played a major role; PMG's 6 had no emotional connection to his Village).

The more I'm thinking about the finale, a few days later, the more I'm liking it. Was it as coherent as the original? Well, if you can call Fall Out coherent, then I'd say no. But that is not a bad thing. A show that you get everything out of on the first viewing doesn't always hold up well to multiple viewings. I already know I'm going to get a lot more out of watching this again on DVD than I did the first time. (Also there's always the chance the DVD will contain additional footage; I'm sure they had to cut a few things here and there).

Alex
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Incidentally this whole 6 taking over aspect actually rather closely mirrors the events of Fall Out in which the Village offers Number 6 the opportunity to lead them.

I always interpreted that line (and the fact that, when Number One's face mask is pulled off, Six's own face is shown under it) to mean that, in the original series, the Village was created especially for Number Six's case. The whole thing was always about him. The entire village and everyone in it was dedicated to finding out his secrets, specifically why he resigned.

Notice how, when he says "Who is Number One?" he is told "You are Number Six." Or perhaps "You are, Number Six"... :vulcan:
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

The more I'm thinking about the finale, a few days later, the more I'm liking it.
Same here. I've been thinking about the whole mini series over the last couple of days. I find myself caring a bit more about the characters, more pieces are falling into place and the whole thing is growing on me in general.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

I might actually buy the remake on Blu-Ray if it is ever announced. (The original series has, but not this one. Yet.)
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Cool ending. It screwed around with the audience's expectations, being pretty much the opposite of the individual-vs-society notion of the original. It wasn't obvious, yet it progressed naturally from the beginning of the story.

I had no idea how this would end, but as of the second episode, I'd noticed that Michael's life in NYC was so screwed up, and he was so screwed up, that for him to simply return would be no kind of happy ending at all. It even occurred to me that the Village might be some sort of therapy. That's what you want from an ending - not predictable, but not completely out of left field, either.

In real life, Michael suffered from excessive individualism. That's why he couldn't make connections with other people. By voluntarily sacrificing his identity and his life in order to stay with his friends from the Village, and maintain their sanctuary, he gained the connections he could not have had in NYC anyway. There was never anything for him to go back for. That's the polar opposite from the original's message, and makes every bit as much sense. I think the whole series was nicely done (but it was a good thing it was short - this isn't a story that needs to go on and on.)
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

By voluntarily sacrificing his identity and his life in order to stay with his friends from the Village, and maintain their sanctuary, he gained the connections he could not have had in NYC anyway.

You did see the part where, in the real world, Michael takes over as head of Summakor? There's two of him: one IRL, and one in the Village (who is the new 2). In fact there's two of pretty much everyone in the Village in that fashion, except for 11-12 who was actually born there.

Apparently when someone signs up for therapy with Summakor, a duplicate of them is somehow created and sent to the Village. (That's what happened with Michael/6) And at the end of their therapy, the two are reintegrated again.
 
Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Not worth the 6 hours of weirdness. It had some good actors, but it just seemed like it was trying to be bizarre just to be bizarre.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top