The Prime Directive on this show

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Indeed. In most cases (Piece of the Action, Bread and Circuses, Patterns of Force, Private Little War, The Omega Glory, The Return of the Archons, The Apple, Spock's Brain, etc) someone could make the argument that Kirk and crew tried to correct a contamination that had already happened (or prevent further contamination) directly or indirectly from Federation personnel, or a 2nd power (e.g. Klingons), or by technology (Vaal, Landru, etc).

 

[locutus101]

A species that falls prey to domination once, will probably fall prey to domination twice, so what if the next computer that takes over is a bit more of an asshole than the last one?

Well given that the bunch of them seems to be back to stone age level. it'll probably take more than thirty thousand years to their descendants to make a new Vaal. Nothing to worry about in the meantime.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But Kirk didn't turn back the clock in "The Omega Glory". Those fictional people were killing each other for thousands of years, I seriously doubt reading the preamble to a dozen of them, all of a sudden turned them into peace lovers.

I was moaning about the term "prior contamination".

"It's alright for us to meddle to try and reverse our last bunch of meddling." Is what an incompetent idjit says when they are not completely aware that they are an incompetent idjit yet.

The Khoms are all but wiped out by the invading Yangs?

That is what was supposed to have happened without Tracy's involvement, and what did happen despite Tracy's involvement. He didn't actually change the results of the war, although subtracting 10's of thousand of Yang's from the gene pool can't help establish the next generation much.

The only contention to reverse, is to resurrect the thousands Tracy murdered, which is probably beyond Kirk's power to bring about.

 

[TheSubCommander]

A species that falls prey to domination once, will probably fall prey to domination twice, so what if the next computer that takes over is a bit more of an asshole than the last one?

Do you really think the people from Return of the Archons or The Apple could build a super computer?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nomad.

V'ger.

The Borg.

You don't have to build AI yourself, to become beholden to singularity.

 

[JoeCabby]

All that does is create mistrust, and make the lesser civilization feel patronized. If you're going to start dealing with a civilization, you must be ready to do it as equals.

That was a bad example on my part. I was thinking of an industrial planet that isn't anywhere near warp capable. If let's say the 1940's humans ran into a situation similar to that in Homeward where the planet was destroyed and mostly everyone died. If you knew that for some reason that planet was going to be destroyed in a few hundred years they can help them by getting their technology up to speed so they can colonize another planet.

As for enterprise, you're right, it does create mistrust and I still don't understand why the humans even listened to the Vulcans. They created the technology themselves and didn't really need the Vulcans to tell them what to do.

 

[Rahul]

I think "prior contamination" would come into play in both "The Omega Glory" and "A Private Little War". In the former, Kirk merely communicated what was already a written document. In the latter, the Klingons were giving a technological leap to one group of people. Kirk merely restored the balance that existed prior to that interference.

Yeah, I think that's exactly how the prime directive should be used.

The PD ist NOT "Never touch anything". It's "Don't f-ing push your own agenda on them".

It basicall steams from a deep respect for 15th century explorers, with the wish they just weren't such assholes to everyone they met and wiped out their civilisations.

Also, I don't believe for one second that only the Federation has the PD. It seems to be the lowest common denominator between all (Alpha quadrant) space-faring civilisations not to meddle with lower ones. Otherwise the klingons would have invaded a shit ton of lesser species and strip-mined their whole planet. No, the only time we saw that, the klingon tried to do it stealthy (with those muskets), pretending the natives developed them on their own, for not to get openly seen violating the prime directive. That implies even the hostile klingons follow the PD (at least officially). And this is basically everytime Kirk "violates" the PD: After it was already broken, to try to nullify or at least reduce the impact of the previous breach. The Dominion in the Gamma quadrant on the other hand never seem to had one, and were happy to enslave and meddle with each and everyone they met.

And yeah, we saw the Federation (and klingons for that matter) trading, making diplomacy, and trying to influence other species through political and economical means, or straight up make them members of the Federation and include them in their political system. The PD basically just prevents alien races straight up invading non-warp civilisations, holding them at gunpoint, and tell them what to do.

 

[David Strickhouser]

Kirk interfered, but it was because these societies were being controlled by a computer, which was not part of those societies natural progression.

Are we sure that computer control wasn't the natural progression of those societies? Look at our own civilization's "fascination" with technology and convenience of same.
Are Steve Jobs' inventions for the "good of the body" like Landru?

 

[Zonker]

Only in Latin, to make it classy.

Futue derectivus prīmārium!

(Note: I've never studied Latin, so that's probably wrong.)

Close. It would be "Futue dirigens primum!"

 

[Shalashaska]

The Prime Directive feels like it's about to cave in on itself in the mid-late TNG-era. I hope it's not so rigid in DSC, some flexibility would be nice.

 

[Rahul]

Are we sure that computer control wasn't the natural progression of those societies? Look at our own civilization's "fascination" with technology and convenience of same.
Are Steve Jobs' inventions for the "good of the body" like Landru?

I would argue that depends on wether or not they built those computers themselves. If it's an alien entity like the god of the Edo? PD doesn't apply. In the case of "A taste of Armageddon", the PD should theoretically apply. I have to admit it's too long ago I saw those episodes. Was the PD mentioned in "Armageddon"? And was the Computer in "The Apple" built by aliens, or an ancient civilisation from the same planet...?

Except if the prime directive maybe has a "fuck Skynet" subsection: "Never interfere with the natural development of other civilisations... except if they've gone full robot uprising. Then fuck them. We met ONE cyborg species, we still have problems with them, we don't want another one."

 

[Tenacity]

Do you really think the people from ... The Apple could build a super computer?

They already had one, just needed to rebuild the power source, which isn't simple, but has to be easier than building a supercomputer.

How much of Vall is destroyed, just damaged, or just sleeping?

 

[Kor]

The Prime Directive was handled best in TOS. The captain used his discretion to determine how best it should be applied, rather than, for instance, letting an entire civilization die from something could be prevented with Starfleet's advanced technology, due to a rigid refusal to get involved at all.

Kor

 

[locutus101]

The Prime Directive was handled best in TOS. The captain used his discretion to determine how best it should be applied, rather than, for instance, letting an entire civilization die from something could be prevented with Starfleet's advanced technology, due to a rigid refusal to get involved at all.

Kor

Archer didn't have any prime directive getting in the way. He still did the wrong thing, though.

 

[BillJ]

Archer didn't have any prime directive getting in the way. He still did the wrong thing, though.

Not the first time Enterprise was sabotaged by poor writing.

 

[locutus101]

Not the first time Enterprise was sabotaged by poor writing.

You can say that again.

 

[TheSubCommander]

They already had one, just needed to rebuild the power source, which isn't simple, but has to be easier than building a supercomputer.

How much of Vall is destroyed, just damaged, or just sleeping?

I doubt any of that is very relevant to the people who threw offerings into Vaal's mouth to be provided for. They aren't likely repair Vaal, for a few millennia, and maybe by then they will be warp-capable, anyway.

 

[locutus101]

I doubt any of that is very relevant to the people who threw offerings into Vaal's mouth to be provided for. They aren't likely repair Vaal, for a few millennia, and maybe by then they will be warp-capable, anyway.

It would have been interesting to learn what made their ancestors build Vaal in the first place.

 

[soornge]

kirk was a cowboy politician : he never broke the rules he came close in the episode with the klingons and flint locks i forget the name of it : but its like cheating the kobiyoshimoru : what he did do was neber told he could not : i think that gave it a military realism : often in real armed service you find your self in very gray areas and are reminded constantly there is a reason why rules are written in black and white : the pro pd argument can be seen i t he tos with the mafia "a piece of the action" remeber the planet filled with gang warfare : and the otherone with the natzi planet

 

[locutus101]

In Catspaw, Kirk solved the whole case by smashing a rod on a table. I guess the prime directive wasn't involved since the aliens weren't pre-warp and it wasn't their homeworld.