The Prime Directive on this show
- Thread starter The Overlord
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What do you mean? Of course TOS had the Prime Directive, it was TOS that introduced the Prime Directive in the first place.
Though subsequent shows expanded it beyond its original intent. I have my doubts whether the PD of Kirk's era would have prevented Starfleet involvement in the Klingon Civil War for instance...
I heard about the PD in TOS, but I didn't see much follow-through. If DSC pre-dates TOS, the Prime Directive probably didn't exist yet - or was not well-understood.
The thing about the Prime Directive is that it's a plot device. In TNG, it's not "How will Picard solve the problem without breaking the PD, it is "How will Picard rationalize breaking the PD... again." With Kirk, the PD really seemed like the Prime Suggestion.
The thing about the Prime Directive is that it's a plot device. In TNG, it's not "How will Picard solve the problem without breaking the PD, it is "How will Picard rationalize breaking the PD... again." With Kirk, the PD really seemed like the Prime Suggestion.
The episode the A Piece of the Action says that the prime directive wasn't around in 2168.
T'Pol leans towards the notion that the Vulcans have been observing the principle for a while before she met Archer.
T'Pol leans towards the notion that the Vulcans have been observing the principle for a while before she met Archer.
Of course not. Whole TOS episodes evolved around the Prime Directive. The Prime Directive was in full effect and fully understood in Kirk's time. I suggest watching the episodes "Bread and Circuses", "The Omega Glory", "A Piece of the Action", "A Private Little War".
Also, "The Return of the Archons" (first mention) and "The Apple".
The balance needed for the Prime Directive is what makes it interesting, Kirk was usually juggling much more than just what his immediate actions on the planet would cause. In several instances, the Enterprise was being brought down, which could create much broader contamination than just the couple people on the surface who have limited contact with the locals. In others, it seems like there is some leeway when cleaning up others violations.
Picard (or any other spinoff captain), on the other hand, rarely faced multiple issues when handling the Prime Directive.
No it wasn't.
We saw in a Private Little War, Kirk using the same kind of skills a 12 year old brings out when he or she has to perform a verbal book report for the class without having ever have read the book.
"Jim you can't give these monkey savages muskets, they'll wipe themselves out!"
"But the Klingons already gave their neighbours very similar guns, so I'm not tilting their culture at all, an artificial imbalance was already created by the Klingons that I am generously righting. Giving these cavemen boomsticks is the very spirit of the Prime Directive and Non interference by nullifying any advantage afforded to any one Nation by bastards like the Klingons."
Um?
Isn't that strategic arms limitation in Asia from the 50s-60s?
Russia and America were using Korea and Nam, other places, to subtly fight each other without having to bring out their nuclear weapons or mobilize 20 million soldiers.
Actually its: futuis prima directiva
True and there's never any debate about the prime directive on these episodes.
At the time, America was an imperialist state that needed to learn moderation.
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Don't think the TOS' Prime Directive in TNG's terms. The TNG's Prime Directive had evolved and was different than the TOS' PD. In TOS's time captains could interfere if there was sufficient reason provided. That's what was interesting with Kirk. How he could get around those restrictions without directly breaking the Prime Directive.
Your initial statement was that there was no Prime Directive in TOS at all, which is of course false:
The PD was derived from Vulcan philosophy. i think humans realized it made sense because of the disasters on Earth with less advanced cultures.
Earth did not have a PD during Enterprise, but it surely had one after the creation of the UFP. The various factions were still unstable and seriously needed to be reined in with dealing with other cultures.
Earth did not have a PD during Enterprise, but it surely had one after the creation of the UFP. The various factions were still unstable and seriously needed to be reined in with dealing with other cultures.
McCoy told Kirk that Kirk was wrong.
If kirk's choice was moral or lawful, then McCoy is a baby and Kirk could tell him to sick it.
Reading a little of the script, what was retarding Kirk wasn't General Order one, the Non Interference Policy, or the Prime Directive. It was a thirteen year old recommendation from a Federation Survey Team specifically about this planet and not a blanket cover all golden rule, authored by a younger James Tiberius Kirk.
I disagree totally. It was not imperialist. Like it's adversary, it was extremely paranoid, and that paranoia has found other outlets today.
Regarding the PD. The Prime Directive is extremely important. You have to have a rule before you can break a rule. What I mean is, there are going to be exceptions, as Picard argued (
) no law is absolute, but you have to have something in place to keep disastrous contact from happening. I also generally agree with the broader interpretation that cultures need to progress naturally even in the face of disaster but that becomes problematic in practice. The UFP can't be the galaxy cop like Kirk too often was, butI have an easier time accepting such things in "Pen Pals" than outright crime perpetrated in "The Apple".
) no law is absolute, but you have to have something in place to keep disastrous contact from happening. I also generally agree with the broader interpretation that cultures need to progress naturally even in the face of disaster but that becomes problematic in practice. The UFP can't be the galaxy cop like Kirk too often was, butI have an easier time accepting such things in "Pen Pals" than outright crime perpetrated in "The Apple".Regarding the PD. The Prime Directive is extremely important. You have to have a rule before you can break a rule. What I mean is, there are going to be exceptions, as Picard argued (
I agree that the Apple was a pretty awful example of ...meddling. I mean once they got their asses kicked they should have cut their losses and got the hell out of there instead of destroying a culture that wasn't asking for any help. Not only were they not sick, they were immortal! Now thanks to Kirk they'll have to toil to grow potatoes or stuff for the rest of their short lives. Thank you so much Kirk! We owe you a lot!
No, my initial post was that if it's BEFORE TOS, then there would not be a Prime Directive. Kirk actually spends some time trying to UN-JACK cultures JACKED UP by ships from
You are of course, correct.
In TNG, PD is very important. In TOS we see about a 50:50 application, and Kirk even tries to fix cultures that were jacked up by pre-TOS ships visiting these planets. The farther back we go, the less enforced PD seems to be. It stands to reason then that there should not be a whole lot of PD in Discovery - but there will, because the writers have figured out it's a nice plot device.
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