"The Paradise Syndrome": How Does Kirk Understand the Native Language?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Joanna McCoy-Kirk, Jun 11, 2022.

  1. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    I don't see how that can be. "The Paradise Syndrome" audio starts with transporter sound fx and footsteps (foley sound fx), but the dialogue that should be there is missing. I also checked this guy's (Fish Man's) uploads of "Elaan of Troyius," "Who Mourns for Adonais?", and "The Doomsday Machine." The music and effects (M&E) are there but the dialogue isn't.

    I don't think you can get the separated sound elements from DVD or Blu-ray audio, unless it's a hidden bonus feature I didn't notice. So all I can figure is that he had studio access to the actual M&E tracks that the public would never normally hear. Unless there's a trick to it using home video that I don't know, which is entirely possible.

    BTW, the La La Land 15-CD TOS Soundtrack box set is way better, but of course most people don't have it. :)
     
    Phaser Two likes this.
  2. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    Now I'm wondering about all this "5.1 audio" stuff on Blu-ray that I don't really know about. Maybe the layers are there and Fish Man can pick them out.
     
  3. MarkusTay

    MarkusTay Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2022
    In the Wellworld series of novels, there was a species (exotic, non-carbon based, IIRC) that grew crystals that could be surgically implanted in your throat (or wherever a species' version of 'vocal cords' would be), and it would work psionically, translating the spoken word into something the other person could understand (so it was somehow implanting the translation in the other person's head, and the actual sounds/speech were unchanged). The downside of that methodology was that it was one-way, unless both speakers had them. A major plot-point of the first novel was the 'mind' of one character was transferred into a deer-like creature, and the translator would not work, despite him being sentient/sapient, because "the physical creature needed to be able to communicate to begin with" for the device to work. And of course, it would not work with beings of a non-physical nature (energy/gas/etc.). Still, I thought the psionic approach was the best I've encountered as far as the 'handwave' scify thing goes.

    In my (very) brief foray into computerized music/sound apps, I found - even back then around 2000 - the programs were sophisticated enough to 'distill' the music from the vocals (they were able to separate individual instruments, even, so vocals were no problem).
     
  4. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State

    I guess, but then why would he leave in all the sound effects?
     
  5. Methuselah Flint

    Methuselah Flint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    I'm pretty certain you can separate the audio track from the DVD into 6 wav files, then presumably patch the appropriate files back together again.

    I think dialogue comes out of one end, and sound effects/music the other. Ergo, you can separate dialogue but not sound effects.

    Audacity, I think, has this function for DVD files.
     
  6. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    Florida
    Bingo. You can separate surround-sound tracks into several individual mono audio tracks. So, for instance, 5.1 surround sound has the center-front track, right-front, left-front, right-read, left-rear, and bass (the ".1" part). For your basic surround mix, dialogue is usually in the center-front track, or the front-sides, and the rear tracks are just the score and maybe some ambient sound effects, so you can just isolate and amplify the rear-left and rear-right tracks to get a fairly good stereo version of just the music. It's possible the TOS DVD mix just put all dialogue exclusively in the center channel unless a character was explicitly off-screen, so the video is just someone turning that one channel off and only using the left and right channel-pairs.

    That all depends on the person who did the mix, though. I've tried splitting surround-sound tracks a couple of times to get unreleased music or sound effects from a movie. Sometimes, there's still some faint dialogue mixed in with all the surround tracks, sometimes the rear tracks are just score, sometimes there's still too many overlapping sounds and no one track has a clean copy of whatever sound effect I'm looking for. The new thing in surround sound is Dolby Atmos, where instead of each speaker-position having its own track, every sound has it's own track, up to something like 128 simultaneous sounds, all arranged in 3D space, and then the player distributes all the sounds to whatever speakers in whatever positions are available to it. I've never even tried to extract one, I'm not sure if I have a computer program where it would read, but theoretically, it'd be a boon to soundtrack bootleggers and fan-video makers who want their phasers to sound right.
     
  7. Methuselah Flint

    Methuselah Flint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    Cheers for that!

    I'm sure I extracted (or attempted to) "No Mind" from Spock's Brain from Requiem for Methuselah ages ago after the 15 disc set accidentally omitted part of it. So I had a feeling it was something to do with different tracks/right, left etc.
     
  8. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Location:
    Clinton, OH
    Babel fish
     
    dupersuper, Kor and Methuselah Flint like this.
  9. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    I also bought the 50th Anniversary set, which has the missed "Spock's Brain" cues, the missed love theme (a library cue) from "Miri," and greatly improved sound quality on the second season library cues. It completes and perfects the 15-disc set.
    https://lalalandrecords.com/star-tr...e-star-trek-universe-limited-edtion-4-cd-set/
     
    Methuselah Flint and Phaser Two like this.
  10. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    Of course Kirk understands the native dialect. That's why he's the gorram captain! ;)
     
  11. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    Idaho
    Plus, Kirk is from Iowa. Nowhere in the canon DOES IT NOT SAY Sioux, and/or any and every other native American language isn't taught to middle school students via RNA drip until they are flawlessly fluent. SO IT MAKES SENSE, and if you deny it you just don't get Trek!
     
  12. serdogthehound

    serdogthehound Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Given that the people in the Village came from many different Nations maybe the Preservers some how build Universal translator in the environment of the area ?
     
    Henoch and Phaser Two like this.
  13. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I've always figured that when Kirk was hit by what Spock calls "probably a memory beam," it not only wiped his memories to some extent, but also gave him the knowledge that enabled him to communicate with the natives. Sure would have been nice to have passed on the knowledge of the obelisk's deflector, too, but then . . . short ep.