"The Paradise Syndrome": How Does Kirk Understand the Native Language?

[ZapBrannigan]

No I don't think so. I think this is a fan extracting the dialogue-free audio from the DVDs.

I don't see how that can be. "The Paradise Syndrome" audio starts with transporter sound fx and footsteps (foley sound fx), but the dialogue that should be there is missing. I also checked this guy's (Fish Man's) uploads of "Elaan of Troyius," "Who Mourns for Adonais?", and "The Doomsday Machine." The music and effects (M&E) are there but the dialogue isn't.

I don't think you can get the separated sound elements from DVD or Blu-ray audio, unless it's a hidden bonus feature I didn't notice. So all I can figure is that he had studio access to the actual M&E tracks that the public would never normally hear. Unless there's a trick to it using home video that I don't know, which is entirely possible.

BTW, the La La Land 15-CD TOS Soundtrack box set is way better, but of course most people don't have it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Now I'm wondering about all this "5.1 audio" stuff on Blu-ray that I don't really know about. Maybe the layers are there and Fish Man can pick them out.

 

[MarkusTay]

In the Wellworld series of novels, there was a species (exotic, non-carbon based, IIRC) that grew crystals that could be surgically implanted in your throat (or wherever a species' version of 'vocal cords' would be), and it would work psionically, translating the spoken word into something the other person could understand (so it was somehow implanting the translation in the other person's head, and the actual sounds/speech were unchanged). The downside of that methodology was that it was one-way, unless both speakers had them. A major plot-point of the first novel was the 'mind' of one character was transferred into a deer-like creature, and the translator would not work, despite him being sentient/sapient, because "the physical creature needed to be able to communicate to begin with" for the device to work. And of course, it would not work with beings of a non-physical nature (energy/gas/etc.). Still, I thought the psionic approach was the best I've encountered as far as the 'handwave' scify thing goes.

How would one go about doing this? I didn't think there was a dialog-free audio track.

In my (very) brief foray into computerized music/sound apps, I found - even back then around 2000 - the programs were sophisticated enough to 'distill' the music from the vocals (they were able to separate individual instruments, even, so vocals were no problem).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In my (very) brief foray into computerized music/sound apps, I found - even back then around 2000 - the programs were sophisticated enough to 'distill' the music from the vocals (they were able to separate individual instruments, even, so vocals were no problem).

I guess, but then why would he leave in all the sound effects?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I'm pretty certain you can separate the audio track from the DVD into 6 wav files, then presumably patch the appropriate files back together again.

I think dialogue comes out of one end, and sound effects/music the other. Ergo, you can separate dialogue but not sound effects.

Audacity, I think, has this function for DVD files.

 

[David cgc]

How would one go about doing this? I didn't think there was a dialog-free audio track.

Now I'm wondering about all this "5.1 audio" stuff on Blu-ray that I don't really know about. Maybe the layers are there and Fish Man can pick them out.

I'm pretty certain you can separate the audio track from the DVD into 6 wav files, then presumably patch the appropriate files back together again.

I think dialogue comes out of one end, and sound effects/music the other. Ergo, you can separate dialogue but not sound effects.

Audacity, I think, has this function for DVD files.

Bingo. You can separate surround-sound tracks into several individual mono audio tracks. So, for instance, 5.1 surround sound has the center-front track, right-front, left-front, right-read, left-rear, and bass (the ".1" part). For your basic surround mix, dialogue is usually in the center-front track, or the front-sides, and the rear tracks are just the score and maybe some ambient sound effects, so you can just isolate and amplify the rear-left and rear-right tracks to get a fairly good stereo version of just the music. It's possible the TOS DVD mix just put all dialogue exclusively in the center channel unless a character was explicitly off-screen, so the video is just someone turning that one channel off and only using the left and right channel-pairs.

That all depends on the person who did the mix, though. I've tried splitting surround-sound tracks a couple of times to get unreleased music or sound effects from a movie. Sometimes, there's still some faint dialogue mixed in with all the surround tracks, sometimes the rear tracks are just score, sometimes there's still too many overlapping sounds and no one track has a clean copy of whatever sound effect I'm looking for. The new thing in surround sound is Dolby Atmos, where instead of each speaker-position having its own track, every sound has it's own track, up to something like 128 simultaneous sounds, all arranged in 3D space, and then the player distributes all the sounds to whatever speakers in whatever positions are available to it. I've never even tried to extract one, I'm not sure if I have a computer program where it would read, but theoretically, it'd be a boon to soundtrack bootleggers and fan-video makers who want their phasers to sound right.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Cheers for that!

I'm sure I extracted (or attempted to) "No Mind" from Spock's Brain from Requiem for Methuselah ages ago after the 15 disc set accidentally omitted part of it. So I had a feeling it was something to do with different tracks/right, left etc.

 

[Shawnster]

Babel fish

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Cheers for that!

I'm sure I extracted (or attempted to) "No Mind" from Spock's Brain from Requiem for Methuselah ages ago after the 15 disc set accidentally omitted part of it. So I had a feeling it was something to do with different tracks/right, left etc.

I also bought the 50th Anniversary set, which has the missed "Spock's Brain" cues, the missed love theme (a library cue) from "Miri," and greatly improved sound quality on the second season library cues. It completes and perfects the 15-disc set.
https://lalalandrecords.com/star-tr...e-star-trek-universe-limited-edtion-4-cd-set/

 

[Jedi Marso]

How does Kirk understand Miramanee and her people? He left his communicator on the floor inside the obelisk after he was zapped by the memory beam, so no universal translator. I guess this is one of the episode's flaws (among many others).

Of course Kirk understands the native dialect. That's why he's the gorram captain!

 

[Jedi Marso]

Plus, Kirk is from Iowa. Nowhere in the canon DOES IT NOT SAY Sioux, and/or any and every other native American language isn't taught to middle school students via RNA drip until they are flawlessly fluent. SO IT MAKES SENSE, and if you deny it you just don't get Trek!

 

[serdogthehound]

Given that the people in the Village came from many different Nations maybe the Preservers some how build Universal translator in the environment of the area ?

 

[Phaser Two]

I've always figured that when Kirk was hit by what Spock calls "probably a memory beam," it not only wiped his memories to some extent, but also gave him the knowledge that enabled him to communicate with the natives. Sure would have been nice to have passed on the knowledge of the obelisk's deflector, too, but then . . . short ep.

 

[Roundabout]

I assume the memory beam that he activated out of sequence still imparted the ability to understand and speak the language of the local natives.

Maybe it was the same type of technology that was used in another TOS episode.

The technology, that pumped knowledge into the brains of McCoy and that airhead gal in "Spock's Brain", might be similar to how the obelisk imparted knowledge of the native language into Kirk's brain.

-------

"The Paradise Syndrome" is a second rate episode, imo. But there is a wacky twist in the story that, for me, actually adds an interesting extra layer of context to the episode. It has nothing to do with Kirk's newfound language skill, though.

During TOS, Kirk proved himself to be, among other things, a slayer of false gods. He destroyed machines that had delusions of godhood, so to speak, like Landru and Vaal. He deposed flesh and blood gods, as well, like Apollo and Gary Mitchell, the friend who developed god complex.

In "The Paradise Syndrome", the tables were turned. It was Kirk who was put on a pedestal. Kirk, or Kirok, was a god to those Native American villagers.

Being a god came with perks, and Kirk made the most of his god status. For one thing, Kirk surely got to enjoy Miramanee.

But Kirk was a false god. And you know what happens to false gods.

Granted, Kirk had amnesia. He didn't know any better. And as Kirok, he did seem to mean well.

Nevertheless, Kirk got a taste of his own bitter medicine. The jeolous village medicine man eventually saw through Kirok's facade of godliness. And when the opportunity arose, he brutally exposed Kirk as a false god. Othe villagers saw the fraud, as well, when Kirk failed to stop the incoming storm. So, they stoned him.

It was Kirk's turn to be toppled from a godly perch. Poetic justice? What a bitter irony for Kirk.

Don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting that the writers had this in mind when they wrote this episode. Then again, maybe they did.

Anyway, when I view "The Paradise Syndrome" with the perspective that I described above, it makes, what is an otherwise mediocre episode, into something so much more watchable.

 

[Koloth TOS]

Same problem with the neandertalers in Spock‘s Brain, they speak English fluently…

 

[smalltabby]

Astronomical odds of a mutual language just happening to work in the crew's favour every time.

The Paradise Syndrome is a definite crap-tier episode for me. I feel like Margaret Armen must have had some self-indulgent fantasies in mind when she wrote this episode and The Gamesters of Triskelion.

 

[scotpens]

Kirk had a universal translator/recording device that the Metrons gave him when he faced the Gorn.

The Metron voice said "You will be provided with a recording-translating device." Nothing about it being a universal translator. For all we know, the device was only capable of translating Gornese to English and vice versa.

Kirk spoke Hekawi. Luckily, it was the same language Miramanee's people spoke.

I see what you did there.

When I heard that joke, the tribe were called the Fukawi (or Fugarwe).

 

[Poltargyst]

I thought when watching Star Trek it was understood that a universal translator was always at work even if you don't see it or know where it is or how it works.

 

[Poltargyst]

Maybe it was the same type of technology that was used in another TOS episode.

The technology, that pumped knowledge into the brains of McCoy and that airhead gal in "Spock's Brain", might be similar to how the obelisk imparted knowledge of the native language into Kirk's brain.

-------

"The Paradise Syndrome" is a second rate episode, imo. But there is a wacky twist in the story that, for me, actually adds an interesting extra layer of context to the episode. It has nothing to do with Kirk's newfound language skill, though.

During TOS, Kirk proved himself to be, among other things, a slayer of false gods. He destroyed machines that had delusions of godhood, so to speak, like Landru and Vaal. He deposed flesh and blood gods, as well, like Apollo and Gary Mitchell, the friend who developed god complex.

In "The Paradise Syndrome", the tables were turned. It was Kirk who was put on a pedestal. Kirk, or Kirok, was a god to those Native American villagers.

Being a god came with perks, and Kirk made the most of his god status. For one thing, Kirk surely got to enjoy Miramanee.

But Kirk was a false god. And you know what happens to false gods.

Granted, Kirk had amnesia. He didn't know any better. And as Kirok, he did seem to mean well.

Nevertheless, Kirk got a taste of his own bitter medicine. The jeolous village medicine man eventually saw through Kirok's facade of godliness. And when the opportunity arose, he brutally exposed Kirk as a false god. Othe villagers saw the fraud, as well, when Kirk failed to stop the incoming storm. So, they stoned him.

It was Kirk's turn to be toppled from a godly perch. Poetic justice? What a bitter irony for Kirk.

Don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting that the writers had this in mind when they wrote this episode. Then again, maybe they did.

Anyway, when I view "The Paradise Syndrome" with the perspective that I described above, it makes, what is an otherwise mediocre episode, into something so much more watchable.

My thinking has been that Gene Roddenberry was an atheist who felt that the world would be a better place if there was no religion so that humankind can stand on our own two feet without having to bow to any gods, so that's a prevalent theme throughout Star Trek is the tearing down of any beings who claim or are claimed to be gods. That's an interesting insight that in The Paradise Syndrome Kirk is the god who gets torn down.

I always liked The Paradise Syndrome. But then I was always a romantic and a lonely adolescent who wished I had a Miramanee.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The Metron voice said "You will be provided with a recording-translating device." Nothing about it being a universal translator. For all we know, the device was only capable of translating Gornese to English and vice versa.


I see what you did there.

When I heard that joke, the tribe were called the Fukawi (or Fugarwe).

I'm glad someone finally caught it (or at least acknowledged it). And I stole it from F-Troop. :-)