Good points.
I think that meyer also restored the "literary" side of trek. He also treated the audience with respect as far as assuming a high basic level of intelligence and working from there. two things later trek failed horribly at.
The Outsider Who Saved Star Trek
- Thread starter GhostFaceSaint
- Start date
Good points.
I think that meyer also restored the "literary" side of trek. He also treated the audience with respect as far as assuming a high basic level of intelligence and working from there. two things later trek failed horribly at.
Interesting. I would agree that later Trek movies failed at that. And we are, of course, in the movie forum. But I don't think later Trek TV efforts failed at that. I think there was a great deal of TNG and DS9, and even some of Voyager, that assumed the audience had intelligence and did not go for lowest common denominator storytelling.
I think Meyer did a fantastic job on the Wrath of Khan. He deserves a huge amount of credit for that.
We can argue forever as to whether or not The Motion Picture was a success or a failure, but I don't think it misrepresents things to say that it was not the huge mega-hit Paramount would have liked. Star Trek did not need to be "saved" after TMP, but it did need a breath of fresh air, and Meyer certainly gave them that.
However, I think Meyer's legacy to the movies that came later has not necessarily been 100% positive, for a few reasons.
- Wrath of Khan was a cheap film. It reused a lot of shots from TMP, and had generally cheaper sets and effects. Now, Meyer deserves a huge amount of credit for making an epic film on a non-epic budget. But, unfortunately, all future Trek films suffered to some degree because of lower budgets, and an expectation that they could replicate Khan's success. And no, you can't blame Meyer personally for Paramount's stingy attitude, but it is certainly a result of his legacy.
- Wrath of Khan was an action-packed film, at least compared to TMP. And, again, it all worked. However, many subsequent Trek films seemed to feel the need to throw in space battles, obsessed villains, and the like as a way to recapture the feeling of Khan (Nemesis is perhaps the worst example of this). How many of the best TV Trek episodes relied on these kinds of things? Very few, in my opinion. Again, this is not a criticism of Meyer personally, but more of his legacy.
- I'm not 100% happy with Meyer making Starfleet a more militaristic organization. I think the original TV show, as well as The Motion Picture, did a good job of balancing Starfleet's military side with its exploration and scientific side.
- Finally, a few words on The Undiscovered Country. It was a good film, but I think lots of fans overlook its many flaws simply because Meyer was at the helm. Not only did we see a return to the very militaristic Starfleet, but the film had some pretty awful dialogue, a middle act that went nowhere, and plot holes galore (though it's hardly alone in that).
In short, I think Meyer's name does belong alongside the various people who contributed to Star Trek's success. But to say he "saved" Trek is maybe a bit of an exaggeration.
We can argue forever as to whether or not The Motion Picture was a success or a failure, but I don't think it misrepresents things to say that it was not the huge mega-hit Paramount would have liked. Star Trek did not need to be "saved" after TMP, but it did need a breath of fresh air, and Meyer certainly gave them that.
However, I think Meyer's legacy to the movies that came later has not necessarily been 100% positive, for a few reasons.
- Wrath of Khan was a cheap film. It reused a lot of shots from TMP, and had generally cheaper sets and effects. Now, Meyer deserves a huge amount of credit for making an epic film on a non-epic budget. But, unfortunately, all future Trek films suffered to some degree because of lower budgets, and an expectation that they could replicate Khan's success. And no, you can't blame Meyer personally for Paramount's stingy attitude, but it is certainly a result of his legacy.
- Wrath of Khan was an action-packed film, at least compared to TMP. And, again, it all worked. However, many subsequent Trek films seemed to feel the need to throw in space battles, obsessed villains, and the like as a way to recapture the feeling of Khan (Nemesis is perhaps the worst example of this). How many of the best TV Trek episodes relied on these kinds of things? Very few, in my opinion. Again, this is not a criticism of Meyer personally, but more of his legacy.
- I'm not 100% happy with Meyer making Starfleet a more militaristic organization. I think the original TV show, as well as The Motion Picture, did a good job of balancing Starfleet's military side with its exploration and scientific side.
- Finally, a few words on The Undiscovered Country. It was a good film, but I think lots of fans overlook its many flaws simply because Meyer was at the helm. Not only did we see a return to the very militaristic Starfleet, but the film had some pretty awful dialogue, a middle act that went nowhere, and plot holes galore (though it's hardly alone in that).
In short, I think Meyer's name does belong alongside the various people who contributed to Star Trek's success. But to say he "saved" Trek is maybe a bit of an exaggeration.
Last edited:
I was speaking mostly toward the TNG film efforts and more specifically the operating position by Rick Berman.
Well I am glad to see some respect finally for Nick on the thread I started, however I have come to change my position slightly on the issue of why I think Nick saved Star Trek, I have noted the many complaints by people who blame Nick for 'Wrath being a cheap film however that was not his fault but what has already been noted Paramount and Bennet's choice after poor Gene's attempt at producing one and the near disaster in its production problems, so if someone else had been given the sequel with that budget I believe that the film would not have been epic but a very poor B-movie that would have ended any future attempts at Star Trek.
One of the reason's their was an impression that Star Trek was to end with 'Wrath was Spock's death, which by the way their was no plans by the Paramount executives to bring him back, they were under the mistaken impression that Nimoy had asked for the death which Nimoy had to prove to the execs that he did not in order to direct the third film. Anyway many thought that Star Trek had ended with 'Wrath since no announcement for a sequel had come out by films release. According to Nimoy, who lobbied successfully to direct the third film, Star Trek three was never a certainty and was questioned by the execs as to whether or not it could work because they said the second was the final film (because of Spock's death), looking back they probably had that impression, not before the film came out like I originally understood, but after the film came out in theaters so this really was an issue about wether or not Star Trek could continue without Spock especially when the execs had the mistaken thought that Nimoy asked to be killed off.
So In conclusion I still believe Nick Meyer saved Trek, he saved it from the execs who could have easily given the film with its small budget to an unqualified director, without Meyer Star Trek could have easily died in '81 and the execs wouldn't have cared either way because they had originally been looking for a Star Wars sized success but were disappointed to get something else instead, and personally I am quite happy with Star Trek as it is
.
One of the reason's their was an impression that Star Trek was to end with 'Wrath was Spock's death, which by the way their was no plans by the Paramount executives to bring him back, they were under the mistaken impression that Nimoy had asked for the death which Nimoy had to prove to the execs that he did not in order to direct the third film. Anyway many thought that Star Trek had ended with 'Wrath since no announcement for a sequel had come out by films release. According to Nimoy, who lobbied successfully to direct the third film, Star Trek three was never a certainty and was questioned by the execs as to whether or not it could work because they said the second was the final film (because of Spock's death), looking back they probably had that impression, not before the film came out like I originally understood, but after the film came out in theaters so this really was an issue about wether or not Star Trek could continue without Spock especially when the execs had the mistaken thought that Nimoy asked to be killed off.
So In conclusion I still believe Nick Meyer saved Trek, he saved it from the execs who could have easily given the film with its small budget to an unqualified director, without Meyer Star Trek could have easily died in '81 and the execs wouldn't have cared either way because they had originally been looking for a Star Wars sized success but were disappointed to get something else instead, and personally I am quite happy with Star Trek as it is
.
I'm aware of that, but he still played a signficant role in it being the co-writer and (in my opinion, based on what was said on the DVD) the one who wrote most of the best parts. I consider his co-writing that film as much an important contribution of his to the film franchise as directing the two movies he directed.
But the comment your were responding to was "Meyer made one real good Trek movie and one tired, lame and pretentious one." Generally "make" implies the director, not a co-writer, which is why I clarified.
Similar threads
