The Orion Union

[F. King Daniel]

Gaila was a cadet in ST'09, and in ID there was an Orion crewman on the Enterprise and another, a civilian, in San Francisco.

Are Orion/Federation relations different in the AU, or do you think there were some Orions in Starfleet and on Earth in the TOS timeline too? I'm thinking that Pike's fantasy image in "The Cage" of Orion woman as a strange and rare commodity paints an inaccurate picture of what things were "really" like.

 

[Shatinator]

Why wouldn't it be. After all the Ferengi are not part of UFP, but Nog went to Starfleet Academy. Unless in this universe one assumes banning entire species (sounds more like the Mirror -Prime- Universe).
But then again, Starfleet took Wesley too...and he can a real pain in the ass; so maybe bans aren't all that bad

 

[R. Star]

I give them a pass on that. Sure the Orions have always been antagonists, but I would imagine a race that routinely enslaves their own people would have a high number of refugees heading towards the Federation.

 

[Sindatur]

I give them a pass on that. Sure the Orions have always been antagonists, but I would imagine a race that routinely enslaves their own people would have a high number of refugees heading towards the Federation.

Yea, but, we've never seen any Orion Men running free, just a few Orion Women,who, of course are the actual slavers

 

[YellowSubmarine]

There are Japanese people in Europe, some are even running for office, and Japan is not part of the European Union. There are Albanian people in the USA, some are even hosting reality TV shows, and Albania is not a US state (even if they are interested). Why shouldn't there be Orion people in the Federation, or Starfleet for that matter? That their world is not part of the Federation is not a reason at all.

What's more, I would like to believe that as much as the Federation stays further away from the internal affairs of its members than any planetary government, it still upholds certain standards, particularly regarding slavery. Picard's speeches in "A Measure of a Man" would seem to imply as much. I would assume that not only Orion women victims of slavery would find a home in the Federation, but they would be actively encouraged to do so, which would create a large Orion women diaspora on the Federation worlds.

 

[DEWLine]

I suspect there's factions among the Orions, some allied to the Orion Syndicate, others choosing the Federation. What sort of arrangement the Orion Union as depicted on Marcus' map has internally and externally...I can't guess.

 

[Wadjda]

There is an Orion security guy in the ongoing comic.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Neither China nor South Korea are part of the United States, but I served in the US Navy with Lin Jim Ching and Han Chu Shin.

 

[EmoBorg]

Neither China nor South Korea are part of the United States, but I served in the US Navy with Lin Jim Ching and Han Chu Shin.

I agree. When i was in the army almost a decade ago, i served with muslims. It is possible for Orion immigrants to serve in the Federation.

 

[Sci]

For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile? And it's also possible that there's just a significant Orion diaspora within the Federation, with its members as citizens of the Federation and of whatever Federation Member State they live in. (Maybe there's a large community of Alpha Centauran Orions, or Ithenite Orions, or Grazerite Orions?)

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek. Why can't they be another greened-skin people? There are enough brown- and beige-skinned humanoids in Trek and at least two prominent blue-skinned races in the Andorians and the Bolians. Maybe these girls were the vaguely Vulcanoid Rigelians we heard about JtB.

 

[Sci]

I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek.

By that logic, Steve Buscemi must be a different species from Beyonce Knowles.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I have often wondered what species Steve Buscemi is.

For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile?

Any world that wishes to join the Federation must be unified into one state ("Attached"). So if Orion is not so unified, then it can't be a member. Also, even if Orion is a member, then its practice of slavery would also not allow it in, as that would surely be forbidden under Federation law.

And it's also possible that there's just a significant Orion diaspora within the Federation, with its members as citizens of the Federation and of whatever Federation Member State they live in. (Maybe there's a large community of Alpha Centauran Orions, or Ithenite Orions, or Grazerite Orions?)

Could be.

 

[Sci]

For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile?

Any world that wishes to join the Federation must be unified into one state ("Attached"). So if Orion is not so unified, then it can't be a member. Also, even if Orion is a member, then its practice of slavery would also not allow it in, as that would surely be forbidden under Federation law.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that any Orion polity is a Federation Member. Rather, I am suggesting that the Orion species may be divided between multiple independent polities, with one being perhaps more friendly than the other towards the Federation. A figurative interstellar East Germany and West Germany, so to speak.

However, I see no reason why a sovereign Orion polity that meets the other requirements for Federation Membership could not join. If there's, say, an Orion Union and an Orion Republic, and the Orion Union governs its own solar system, is a liberal democracy, protects the natural rights of all its inhabitants, bans slavery and caste-based discrimination, etc., whilst the Orion Republic is a slave-based oligarchy? I see no reason why the Orion Union could not join the Federation while the Orion Republic stays out.

Heck, there's already at least one species that's divided between two polities, one of whom is a Federation Member State and one of whom is not: the Vulcan species, the majority of whose members appear to be citizens of the independent Romulan Star Empire, but whose original population base are citizens of the Vulcan polity, which is part of the Federation.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek.

By that logic, Steve Buscemi must be a different species from Beyonce Knowles.

Not really--Luwazanna Troi is a different species from Rachel Garrett.

 

[Lance]

Why wouldn't it be. After all the Ferengi are not part of UFP, but Nog went to Starfleet Academy.

Ensign Ro was already in Starfleet even though Bajor wasn't part of the UFP (at the time). So, being part of the UFP has never really been a requirement for acceptance to Starfleet.

I think that's kind of cool actually. As long as Starfleet Command are satisfied that the applicant isn't a spy for a competing political power, they'd probably accept anyone.

 

[Sci]

I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek.

By that logic, Steve Buscemi must be a different species from Beyonce Knowles.

Not really--Luwazanna Troi is a different species from Rachel Garrett.

All I'm saying is, arguing that a different skin tone, hair color, or level of attractiveness means they must be a different species? It's a little bit silly.

 

[DEWLine]

Agreed, Sci.

Orions can't vary in skin tone? Seriously?

Pull the other one.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

If that's what I said, you'd have a point. I never said MUST, I said--because they look like no Orion we've seen before beyond the green skin--that they could be (and I prefer to think are) another race. By your logic, Kermit and Yoda are Orions.

(Sucks when people misrepresent and over-simplify your argument, doesn't it?)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I see no reason why a sovereign Orion polity that meets the other requirements for Federation Membership could not join. If there's, say, an Orion Union and an Orion Republic, and the Orion Union governs its own solar system, is a liberal democracy, protects the natural rights of all its inhabitants, bans slavery and caste-based discrimination, etc., whilst the Orion Republic is a slave-based oligarchy? I see no reason why the Orion Union could not join the Federation while the Orion Republic stays out.

I suppose you're right. I was speaking more towards multiple states that share the same homeworld or system, like the Kes and Prytt in "Attached". Federation law clearly would not allow that. But in the example you just gave (when they control different worlds or systems altogether) I think it would be allowed.