Eh?
The ONLY thing I hated about STXI (please explain)
- Thread starter TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME
- Start date
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
The line was pretty awful and jarring. Kirk's response though was gold.
Disillusioned
Commander
And yet she still ended up doing nothing but shouting from the sidelines.
That wasn't a direct "go away, not interested" either. And it doesn't excuse her insult either. But at least you're admitting that there was nothing joking or playful about it.
Nothing like that around here. Around here mules are used to pull heavy things when using a tractor or some other vehicle is impossible or impractical. Or if you really want to you can saddle them up and ride them like a horse, it's just that they tend to like to go pretty slow and can get ornery if you try to make them go faster than walking speed.
Disillusioned
Commander
It was pretty obvious that it wasn't banter and that she was trying to make him go away. Kirk was probably the only one having fun, even when he was getting his ass handed to him by baldie and his two friends.
Disillusioned
Commander
She's laughing at how big of a persistent loser Kirk is. Or are you under the impression I haven't actually watched the movie?
I thought the message was quite clear.
That's not very clever of you at all, is it? For someone who's made quite a few accusations lately about other people using straw man arguments, you're putting up a pretty glaringly obvious one here, as I made no such admission.
Disillusioned
Commander
Maybe to someone who wasn't thinking with his dick. Not that this excuses the insult she used or anything.
Actually no I'm not. You made the acknowledgment yourself, apparently without really realizing it.
What was she supposed to do? Pick up a 2x4 and join in?
And you and I both know the only message that is clear to such a person is a can of mace and a restraining order. You and I also both know that women have been coming up with crude and jarring ways of telling off drunken perverts at a bar since... well, the invention of bars. They don't do this because they honestly think it will make them go away, they (for the most part) do it because said drunken perverts can't really respond to that kind of verbal abuse except for rolling their eyes and walking away.
Not that this won't simply throw more fire on the insuing flame war, but it also has to be remembered that Uhura is a black woman, for whom even in the 23rd century, shooting down loosers at a bar is practically an olympic sport.
Okay color me possibly naive but I really didn't get that dynamic. Now that you have explained it so clearly I get it (my original post was asking for an explanation for why this line was in there.) I haven't got any real life bar experience like that but now that I think about it I've said some deliberately crude things to lecherous jerks on forums in an attempt to trump them at their own game and put them off.
I still think it is a jarring line for Star Trek but I get it now.
Disillusioned
Commander
You've never broken up a fight? Don't get me wrong, it can get you hurt, but if at least one of them is a friend and has any respect for you at all, they'll stop. Plus that whole thing about being able to handle herself. Or don't you think a woman could hold her own in a fight?
Guess that's what should have happened then. Or if after she told him off directly, she should have brought out the mace or just decked him.
Hurray, our hero is a drunken pervert! Oh, wait...
And to be frank it's the insult that was picked out that is the issue to begin with.
So what you're saying is that Uhura is a stereotype in this movie?
Not between five marines and a drunken townie, no. Hence the 2x4.
Frankly, no, though it sorta depends on the woman.
The vastly more interesting question is: could Uhura handle herself in a fight?
Why? That's not what usually happens in these situations. Actually, what usually happens in these situations is... well, more or less what exactly what we saw, although it usually doesn't get that violent unless the chick doing the shooting-down is a member of the armed forces with some of her buddies hanging around.
Oh, wait...
Hardly. By the end of the movie he appears to be perfectly sober.Hurray, our hero is a drunken pervert! Oh, wait...
Kirk didn't seem particularly offended by it since he didn't immediately flip her off and crawl up to the next hottest woman on the bar. Anyway, it's a little weird to be vicariously offended on behalf of a fictional character who didn't even take it to heart.
Believe me, there's nothing stereotypical about women--especially black women--getting enjoyment by shooting holes in the fragile egos of random barflies. It's a cultural thing, and though I have no idea where it comes from, it is a recognizable meme. In fact, it's about as stereotypical as, say, a man getting drunk and trying to flirt with a pretty girl in a bar.
What I didn't like:
1. Nero felt like he wasn't a very interesting villain. He just screamed villain to me, but most of his lines were relegated to "Lower the drill" or "Prepare the red matter." With all the effort they gave to the crew of the big E, they could have put some thought into the villain. The way I right villains is to actually not write them as villains, just people with opposing goals to what is good for everyone else,. And his final motivation was, well, stupid. Spock was trying to help. The Nova was not his fault. It's a bit nuts to hold Spock responsible for a natural phenomena. I've never seen a weaker motivation for revenge in any film.
2. I agree with the idea that engineering looks like what it is a factory or brewery, depending on where they are.. I am thankful that it is tangible and not just a CGI set a'la Lucas, but it just seemed odd. I mean look at how far apart the walls are compared to the shuttle bay walls right behind it.
3. They did a better job on Orion females on Enterprise. Particularly the one who did not speak in Borderland.
4. I think they could have cut the scene that everyone thinks is so pivotal, the one where they explicitly discuss the alternate reality. I think an interested viewer doesn't need this scene, as other hints that they are living in another reality are there. But what bugs me is how overstated it is, particularly Uhura's line about it. It's one good way to lose the interest of both noobs and fans alike. The should have done it more subtle. Maybe have Spock mutter to Kirk, that he believes that, yes, their lives might have been different.
5. I thought the Nerada was a crappy ship, much too needlessly dark, in that it needed to look "evil-looking." On a similar note, the little creature that he put into Pike was such a bad idea, plus one that was used in another Trek film.
6. The idea of seeing Spock's childhood troubles was cool, but the idea of "logical bullies" strikes me as silly, and the scene as played merely accented this fact.
7. Romulans are actually rejects from Pirates of the Caribean? Whose idea was that? I mean, Romulans have never been more mis-characterized, ever. They are supposed to be sneaky, slimey, smart, and sharp as hell, not balding, beer guzzling-looking men.
8. Could it have been that hard for them to write a scene that showed a debate with Bones, Spock, and Kirk... or at least Bones and Spock, with Kirk there, so he could kind of consider both of his friends' opinions.
9. I said this in another thread. Nimoy was awesome, but he sounded very silly as he told the back-story during the mindmeld.
1. Nero felt like he wasn't a very interesting villain. He just screamed villain to me, but most of his lines were relegated to "Lower the drill" or "Prepare the red matter." With all the effort they gave to the crew of the big E, they could have put some thought into the villain. The way I right villains is to actually not write them as villains, just people with opposing goals to what is good for everyone else,. And his final motivation was, well, stupid. Spock was trying to help. The Nova was not his fault. It's a bit nuts to hold Spock responsible for a natural phenomena. I've never seen a weaker motivation for revenge in any film.
2. I agree with the idea that engineering looks like what it is a factory or brewery, depending on where they are.. I am thankful that it is tangible and not just a CGI set a'la Lucas, but it just seemed odd. I mean look at how far apart the walls are compared to the shuttle bay walls right behind it.
3. They did a better job on Orion females on Enterprise. Particularly the one who did not speak in Borderland.
4. I think they could have cut the scene that everyone thinks is so pivotal, the one where they explicitly discuss the alternate reality. I think an interested viewer doesn't need this scene, as other hints that they are living in another reality are there. But what bugs me is how overstated it is, particularly Uhura's line about it. It's one good way to lose the interest of both noobs and fans alike. The should have done it more subtle. Maybe have Spock mutter to Kirk, that he believes that, yes, their lives might have been different.
5. I thought the Nerada was a crappy ship, much too needlessly dark, in that it needed to look "evil-looking." On a similar note, the little creature that he put into Pike was such a bad idea, plus one that was used in another Trek film.
6. The idea of seeing Spock's childhood troubles was cool, but the idea of "logical bullies" strikes me as silly, and the scene as played merely accented this fact.
7. Romulans are actually rejects from Pirates of the Caribean? Whose idea was that? I mean, Romulans have never been more mis-characterized, ever. They are supposed to be sneaky, slimey, smart, and sharp as hell, not balding, beer guzzling-looking men.
8. Could it have been that hard for them to write a scene that showed a debate with Bones, Spock, and Kirk... or at least Bones and Spock, with Kirk there, so he could kind of consider both of his friends' opinions.
9. I said this in another thread. Nimoy was awesome, but he sounded very silly as he told the back-story during the mindmeld.
Last edited:
she may be a petite woman, but she is tough as nails. I wouldn't mess with her, and I'm a guy.
You raise very good points, FSM.
Well, in fairness, this was referenced in "Journey to Babel", so it is not like it was invented strictly for the movie. Also, how else would Vulcan bullies act?
The best times that happened in TOS was when Kirk played middleman between Spock and McCoy. Seeing that in the new movie would have been neat, but I don't think the movie really presented the opportunity for that to happen. By the time they were mapping out a plan, everyone was pretty much on the same page. Now that everyone is where they "need" to be, I can see that arise easier in the next film.
Well, in fairness, this was referenced in "Journey to Babel", so it is not like it was invented strictly for the movie. Also, how else would Vulcan bullies act?
The best times that happened in TOS was when Kirk played middleman between Spock and McCoy. Seeing that in the new movie would have been neat, but I don't think the movie really presented the opportunity for that to happen. By the time they were mapping out a plan, everyone was pretty much on the same page. Now that everyone is where they "need" to be, I can see that arise easier in the next film.
Especially since bullying itself is such an immensely illogical act.You raise very good points, FSM.
Well, in fairness, this was referenced in "Journey to Babel", so it is not like it was invented strictly for the movie. Also, how else would Vulcan bullies act?
But then, bullying is usually a defensive act by an inferior person to divert attention away from his own failings. That a group of bullies at a Vulcan school would be five of the most illogical students in the entire class should be expected; after all, smarter students would have found something fundamentally illogical about teasing Spock in the first place, since their ability to illicit an emotional response from him would not in any way advance their own academic progress.
And there's also the question of what a group of otherwise logical Vulcans would expect an emotional response to look like. Logically, it's just as possible that Spock might loose his temper and stomp them all into little green smears on the floor as run away crying.
Disillusioned
Commander
Starfleet hardly equate to Marines. If you really want to use that example though, you'd be a Marine yourself and one of their buddies.That strikes me as somewhat sexist. I've seen women kick ass plenty of times before. Maybe they just make them tougher out here.
Well, she said she could. It would've been breaking a stereotype had she actually be able to.
Yeah, because women always need some meathead friends of theirs to stick up for them at a bar.
But that doesn't change the fact he was a perverted horn dog who wasn't taking no for an answer at the bar. I don't think he was drunk yet, but I could be wrong. If he was a drunken pervert I guess that just means our hero really was a drunken pervert.
So? It was still an insult, one that's pretty typical coming from the urbanite who thinks they're so much better then people who don't come from a city. Why they'd hang out at a bar in the middle of no where would be beyond me, but I digress.
Yeah, that was pretty stereotypical.Believe me, there's nothing stereotypical about women--especially black women--getting enjoyment by shooting holes in the fragile egos of random barflies. It's a cultural thing, and though I have no idea where it comes from, it is a recognizable meme. In fact, it's about as stereotypical as, say, a man getting drunk and trying to flirt with a pretty girl in a bar.
Me too. It is not, however, the typical case. I don't know why that is, but I don't think there's anything sexist about acknowledging that.
Though, as I said, making a general point about women isn't as interesting as a general point about Uhura. Nichelle Nichols' Uhura could have mopped the floor with all five of them. Zoe Saldaña... I'm not so sure, it depends on her interpretation of the character, and we just haven't seen enough of it to know.
Handle herself in a fight, or handle a drunken retard at a bar? I don't think she was trying to tell Cupcake that she was planning to beat up Kirk on her own.
Not always needed, but again, the occurrence of which is far from uncommon. It is, in fact, the usual pattern for the eruption of bar fights in general, whether or not said meatheads actually know the girl they're fighting over (and my wife has occasionally and truthfully bragged at being the cause of at least two such incidents in the past four years).
Speaking of stereotypes!
Similar threads
