The Omega Glory

[Hypaspist]

I'd rather three more Mudd stories than the parallel Earth stories. At least his episodes had pretty girls to look at.

...although a crossover with Batman would have been pretty awesome indeed.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

"Bread and Circuses" is just as bad as all the other parallel Earth stories in terms of believability, so I don't tar it for that. I maintain that it's the last minute nature of the "twist" of "The Omega Glory" that results in its being so frequently derided. As a punchline it's undeserved because it has nothing to do with the story told in the first three acts. It just gives Kirk a reason to make a speech.

But in the TOS universe the "parallel worlds" idea is taken as a "given."

You could just as well complain that EVERY episode is "unbelievable" because they violate Einstein's theory of relativity in every episode.

And you're clearly bactracking on the thrust of your prior posts re: Omega which were focused on the perceived pro-U.S. "jingoism" it supposedly reflects, at least, to some.

 

[Marsden]

...
OK I found something on the web which purports to be from the actual script:

*****
(Cloud William sinks to his knees.)
KIRK: Now, Cloud William.
CLOUD: You are a great God servant. We are your slaves.
KIRK; Get up. Face me.
CLOUD: When you would not say the holy words, of the Ee'd Plebnista, I doubted you.
KIRK: I did not recognise those words, you said them so badly, Without meaning.
ELDER: No! No! Only the eyes of a chief may see the Ee'd Plebnista.
KIRK: This was not written for chiefs. (general consternation) Hear me! Hear this! Among my people, we carry many such words as this from many lands, many worlds. Many are equally good and are as well respected, but wherever we have gone, no words have said this thing of importance in quite this way. Look at these three words written larger than the rest, with a special pride never written before or since. Tall words proudly saying We the People. That which you call Ee'd Plebnista was not written for the chiefs or the kings or the warriors or the rich and powerful, but for all the people! Down the centuries, you have slurred the meaning of the words, 'We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution.' These words and the words that follow were not written only for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well!
CLOUD: The Kohms?
KIRK: They must apply to everyone or they mean nothing! Do you understand?
CLOUD: I do not fully understand, one named Kirk. But the holy words will be obeyed. I swear it.
(Kirk leaves the Yangs to gaze at the old papers with new eyes.)
SPOCK: There's no question about his guilt, Captain, but does our involvement here also constitute a violation of the Prime Directive?
KIRK: We merely showed them the meaning of what they were fighting for. Liberty and freedom have to be more than just words. Gentlemen, the fighting is over here. I suggest we leave them to discover their history and their liberty.
(Kirk takes one last look at the flag before leaving.)

******************

So, if you actually look at the INTENT of what this is trying to say, it is actually a very RADICAL political statement of the times. It is an ANTI-cold war message concealed in a somewhat klunky s.f. script.

Kirk actually is saying that the COMMUNISTS have the SAME rights to freedom as the YANKEES.

That FREEDOM should be UNIVERSAL.

A very subversive political message, for the times, and not one I take any issue with.

At all.

That's a good point, it's really not pro American, it's pro everyone. I've changed my opinion, this is no worse than any other parallel Earth things.

And yet you have no problem with "Bread and Circuses", a contemporary episode, which has an ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL Roman empire with absolutely identical government statuates and religious beliefs?

I wasn't a great student, but I must have slept throught the part whent the Romans had machine guns and television.

Absolutely identical!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Armored Saint]

Bread and Circuses is an uchronia. The identical think isn't the Roman part, it's the 20th century's. They only transposed some great lines of Ancien Rome.

I maintain that it's the last minute nature of the "twist" of "The Omega Glory" that results in its being so frequently derided. As a punchline it's undeserved because it has nothing to do with the story told in the first three acts. It just gives Kirk a reason to make a speech.

This!

And I think if I were anti-american, I wouldn't watch TOS at all.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

And I think if I were anti-american, I wouldn't watch TOS at all.

You see, what I just don't get is this insistence some seem to have on linking political viewpoints to what we do or do not choose to watch as entertainment in such broad strokes--resulting in self-censorship.

It is such a narrow way of looking at both politics and culture.

E.g. "I don't like what I view as the sexism in an episode therefore I won't let my children watch it."

"If I disagree with what I think this material 'stands for' politically, I won't partake in it, at all, regardless of any artistic or entertainment merit it might have aside from the political content I attribute to it."

This applies to any politics and any entertainment or "art".

There are some subtitled t.v. shows that occasionally are broadcast which appear to be historical chinese and korean soap operas. They typically have complex story arcs involving various dynastic generals and rulers battling each other.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but just because I might disagree with the politics of one of those ancient korean dictators means I can get nothing at all out of watching it?

The whole point TOS was to show a "unified" Earth that had gotten past all the nationalistic politics of the 20th century, was at peace (at least with itself), and is now a mature enough culture to engage in interstellar exploration of other worlds. For its times the bridge of the enterprise was a "rainbow coalition."

How could anyone watch TOS and not "get" that?

 

[Timo]

Well, from the POV of somebody watching it as 1980s European television broadcasts, TOS appears conservative and militant, even if a bit on the campy side. The time for "getting" it is past: it's of no concern what the message of the show "back then" might have been because times have moved on.

And times will keep on moving on, so any message from today will become irrelevant in the near future. We thus shouldn't worry too much even about the exact ideological content of today's entertainment: like future generations, we can just ignore it and enjoy the fireworks themselves.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You could just as well complain that EVERY episode is "unbelievable" because they violate Einstein's theory of relativity in every episode.

Of course, just as the idea of a creature like the Horta, a Doomsday Machine, Guardian of Forever--or anything else found in TOS could be considered "unbelievable" if one adheres to some strict notion of scientific plausibility.

...but it is science fiction, so just about anything goes.

And you're clearly bactracking on the thrust of your prior posts re: Omega which were focused on the perceived pro-U.S. "jingoism" it supposedly reflects, at least, to some.

Hence the evidence of this false "jingoism, as argued by
Corylea days ago:

I can't imagine what international Star Trek fans think when they see Kirk practically worshiping the US flag and the preamble to the Constitution

and it's all the more wince-worthy given that Mr. Shatner is Canadian.

 

[Commishsleer]

And I think if I were anti-american, I wouldn't watch TOS at all.

You see, what I just don't get is this insistence some seem to have on linking political viewpoints to what we do or do not choose to watch as entertainment in such broad strokes--resulting in self-censorship.

It is such a narrow way of looking at both politics and culture.

E.g. "I don't like what I view as the sexism in an episode therefore I won't let my children watch it."

"If I disagree with what I think this material 'stands for' politically, I won't partake in it, at all, regardless of any artistic or entertainment merit it might have aside from the political content I attribute to it."

This applies to any politics and any entertainment or "art".

There are some subtitled t.v. shows that occasionally are broadcast which appear to be historical chinese and korean soap operas. They typically have complex story arcs involving various dynastic generals and rulers battling each other.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but just because I might disagree with the politics of one of those ancient korean dictators means I can get nothing at all out of watching it?

The whole point TOS was to show a "unified" Earth that had gotten past all the nationalistic politics of the 20th century, was at peace (at least with itself), and is now a mature enough culture to engage in interstellar exploration of other worlds. For its times the bridge of the enterprise was a "rainbow coalition."

How could anyone watch TOS and not "get" that?

I don't think anyone here is banning their children from watching TOS.
Most people here want their children to watch TOS so they can enjoy it as much as they do.