The Old Yeller...

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've lost count of the episodes where we see Riker yell at somebody or something...

With Frame of Mind being the most remarkable....


We have Riker yelling at ARDRA "WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR MAGIC..."

He even yells at poor Lavelle for using two "ayes" instead of one to acknowledge an order (abuse of power, anyone?)

Someone should tell him that yelling makes you rather less convincing than more...

 

[Trekker4747]

Wow, you REALLY don't like Commander Riker, do you? So much hostility and anger to a fictional character from a TV series that hasn't been on the air for 20 years.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Wow, you REALLY don't like Commander Riker, do you? So much hostility and anger to a fictional character from a TV series that hasn't been on the air for 20 years.

How is that addressing the substance of my statement?

And aren't irrelevant ad hominem remarks against the rules in a forum?

 

[Mojochi]

Wow, you REALLY don't like Commander Riker, do you? So much hostility and anger to a fictional character from a TV series that hasn't been on the air for 20 years.

How is that addressing the substance of my statement?

There isn't much substance to it, friend. Riker has emotional moments in the stories. I've seen the same with Picard. It's not all that noteworthy... sorry

 

[EnriqueH]

"SHUT UP!"

To quote Riker.

 

[doubleohfive]

I've lost count of the episodes where we see Riker yell at somebody or something...

With Frame of Mind being the most remarkable....


We have Riker yelling at ARDRA "WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR MAGIC..."

He even yells at poor Lavelle for using two "ayes" instead of one to acknowledge an order (abuse of power, anyone?)

Someone should tell him that yelling makes you rather less convincing than more...

I think it's fair to point out that Riker didn't yell at Lavelle for using two "ayes." It was a simple correction of protocol from a senior officer to a junior officer. I fail to see how in any possible way that constitutes an "abuse of power.")

* * *​

If this is about how Frakes would always raise his voice and yell, then that particular instance is irrelevant to the point you're making.

If it's about Riker reprimanding or correcting junior officers, that's a different story.

To be clear, Riker yelled a lot. But let's not mix up yelling (i.e. raising the volume of his voice, at times unnecessarily) with reprimanding people. There's a difference.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

"SHUT UP!"

To quote Riker.

Not very poilite...

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've lost count of the episodes where we see Riker yell at somebody or something...

With Frame of Mind being the most remarkable....


We have Riker yelling at ARDRA "WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR MAGIC..."

He even yells at poor Lavelle for using two "ayes" instead of one to acknowledge an order (abuse of power, anyone?)

Someone should tell him that yelling makes you rather less convincing than more...

I think it's fair to point out that Riker didn't yell at Lavelle for using two "ayes." It was a simple correction of protocol from a senior officer to a junior officer. I fail to see how in any possible way that constitutes an "abuse of power.")

* * *​

If this is about how Frakes would always raise his voice and yell, then that particular instance is irrelevant to the point you're making.

If it's about Riker reprimanding or correcting junior officers, that's a different story.

To be clear, Riker yelled a lot. But let's not mix up yelling (i.e. raising the volume of his voice, at times unnecessarily) with reprimanding people. There's a difference.

So, in essence, you do acknoledge that he raises his voice, a lot.

 

[doubleohfive]

Did you even read my post?

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Must've been too busy throwing knives at his Riker dartboard...

 

[Zippo and Flask]

I've lost count of the episodes where we see Riker yell at somebody or something...

With Frame of Mind being the most remarkable....


We have Riker yelling at ARDRA "WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR MAGIC..."

He even yells at poor Lavelle for using two "ayes" instead of one to acknowledge an order (abuse of power, anyone?)

Someone should tell him that yelling makes you rather less convincing than more...

(Kolrami has criticized Riker's inappropriate joviality and lack of seriousness for a commanding officer)

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Don't confuse style with intent. Only a fool would question Commander Riker's dedication to Starfleet and the men and women under his command. He is simply the finest officer with whom I have ever served.

Sirna Kolrami: We shall see if your faith is well-founded.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: The test is whether the crew will follow where Commander Riker leads. His... his "joviality" is the means by which he creates that loyalty. And I will match his command style with your statistics anytime.

As far as my observations about Riker are, if you were a new piece of trim aboard 1701-D, then he would flatter you at every opportunity. If you weren't good enough to be a part of Riker's clique (Lt. Barclay, Ensign Lavelle, even Ensign Ro until Riker had his memory erased), then he would treat you like a piece of crap. And it wasn't that Riker was just an ass with subordinates, he was a jerk to "Tom" Riker, non-too-polite to Samuel Clemens, judgmental of Tam Elbrun, and who knows what he actually got up to during A Matter of Perspective.

I never quite understood what Picard saw in Riker. In reference to the exchange with Kolrami, I'm not sure what joviality to which Picard is referring. Riker is dismissive or demeaning of anyone he doesn't like and as the original poster mentions, frequently yells at people as his mechanism to motivate them. That's not jovial; yelling does not create loyalty. Riker's general attitude and behavior should hardly make him a contender for "finest officer" with whom Picard had ever served.

Captain Jellico saw Riker for what he was: a weak officer who had only managed to reach a position of authority because he lucked into having COs that permitted Riker's narcissism to go unchallenged (Picard, DeSoto).

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I've lost count of the episodes where we see Riker yell at somebody or something...

With Frame of Mind being the most remarkable....


We have Riker yelling at ARDRA "WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR MAGIC..."

He even yells at poor Lavelle for using two "ayes" instead of one to acknowledge an order (abuse of power, anyone?)

Someone should tell him that yelling makes you rather less convincing than more...

(Kolrami has criticized Riker's inappropriate joviality and lack of seriousness for a commanding officer)

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Don't confuse style with intent. Only a fool would question Commander Riker's dedication to Starfleet and the men and women under his command. He is simply the finest officer with whom I have ever served.

Sirna Kolrami: We shall see if your faith is well-founded.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: The test is whether the crew will follow where Commander Riker leads. His... his "joviality" is the means by which he creates that loyalty. And I will match his command style with your statistics anytime.

As far as my observations about Riker are, if you were a new piece of trim aboard 1701-D, then he would flatter you at every opportunity. If you weren't good enough to be a part of Riker's clique (Lt. Barclay, Ensign Lavelle, even Ensign Ro until Riker had his memory erased), then he would treat you like a piece of crap. And it wasn't that Riker was just an ass with subordinates, he was a jerk to "Tom" Riker, non-too-polite to Samuel Clemens, judgmental of Tam Elbrun, and who knows what he actually got up to during A Matter of Perspective.

I never quite understood what Picard saw in Riker. In reference to the exchange with Kolrami, I'm not sure what joviality to which Picard is referring. Riker is dismissive or demeaning of anyone he doesn't like and as the original poster mentions, frequently yells at people as his mechanism to motivate them. That's not jovial; yelling does not create loyalty. Riker's general attitude and behavior should hardly make him a contender for "finest officer" with whom Picard had ever served.

Captain Jellico saw Riker for what he was: a weak officer who had only managed to reach a position of authority because he lucked into having COs that permitted Riker's narcissism to go unchallenged (Picard, DeSoto).

Accurate analysis!

If only the people here could see it from different perspectives, they would understand what you mean. From Captain Jellico's for example. When you first take command on a new ship, you don't expect the first officer, especially one that has been highly recommended to you by the former captain, to greet you with a blatant act of insubordination. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have shown the patience and indulgence that Jellico has shown Riker, I would have court martialed his disobeying ass and promoted the next in line to first officer, when Riker didn't execute the shift rotation order, there was no justification for it and I doubt Picard himself would have been so forgiving when he first met Riker. Imagine if Riker had come back and told him I put the saucer section back on automatic instead of obeying your order to do it manually because it seemed more reasonable. I guess, the shortsighted writers didn't see a similitude between these two scenes, because they are just that, shortsighted! They live in a haze where only the present situation is important and the past or future barely exist.

 

[Orphalesion]

I have to admit Riker is one of my less favorite characters in TNG, he was simply less interesting than most of the others, really had the least potential for development/story lines (especially once they basically admitted that he was a static character and kept around in order not to lose Johnathan Frakes) and, in my eyes was the TNG character who would have fit most into TOS without changing much about him.

However his yelling is a bit of an odd thing to criticize almost every character in ST yells at some point or the other, or behaves aggressively with little reason.

There's plenty of other things to criticize about Old Will:

-His douchy behavior towards Barclay (being a smug douche) and Ro Laren (being a anal-retentive douche) as already noted above
-His douchbaggery towards Troi (Sure you can cuddle with me, just get lost when the hawt alien of the week comes along and I wanna bone her instead! <- Just one of the reasons I would have rather seen Deanna with Worf)
-The womanizing (I generally find characters who change partners often less interesting, also would he have showed as much interest in Yuta or Soren if he didn't want to bang them? I don't think so. Reminds me of Kirk btw.)
-His monkey-like posturing and jumping about, especially in Season 1. (which also really reminds me of Kirk btw.)

However there's also a little bit that makes Riker a bit sympathetic and explains (if not excuses) his behavior. Kyle Riker. I can see that growing up only with that douche of a father for family Riker turn out messed up and with quite a bit a screwed idea about what it means to be a man (hence the womanizing and douchbaggery, and even the yelling).
In a way this also fits with him sticking around the Enterprise for as long as he did, in a way Picard was more a father to him, and the rest of the senior stuff more a family, than Kyle Riker ever was. He was a little boy trying to stick with his family and play a grownup/behave like he thought a grownup man would behave.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I have to admit Riker is one of my less favorite characters in TNG, he was simply less interesting than most of the others, really had the least potential for development/story lines (especially once they basically admitted that he was a static character and kept around in order not to lose Johnathan Frakes) and, in my eyes was the TNG character who would have fit most into TOS without changing much about him.

However his yelling is a bit of an odd thing to criticize almost every character in ST yells at some point or the other, or behaves aggressively with little reason.

There's plenty of other things to criticize about Old Will:

-His douchy behavior towards Barclay (being a smug douche) and Ro Laren (being a anal-retentive douche) as already noted above
-His douchbaggery towards Troi (Sure you can cuddle with me, just get lost when the hawt alien of the week comes along and I wanna bone her instead! <- Just one of the reasons I would have rather seen Deanna with Worf)
-The womanizing (I generally find characters who change partners often less interesting, also would he have showed as much interest in Yuta or Soren if he didn't want to bang them? I don't think so. Reminds me of Kirk btw.)
-His monkey-like posturing and jumping about, especially in Season 1. (which also really reminds me of Kirk btw.)

However there's also a little bit that makes Riker a bit sympathetic and explains (if not excuses) his behavior. Kyle Riker. I can see that growing up only with that douche of a father for family Riker turn out messed up and with quite a bit a screwed idea about what it means to be a man (hence the womanizing and douchbaggery, and even the yelling).
In a way this also fits with him sticking around the Enterprise for as long as he did, in a way Picard was more a father to him, and the rest of the senior stuff more a family, than Kyle Riker ever was. He was a little boy trying to stick with his family and play a grownup/behave like he thought a grownup man would behave.

I have sensitive hearing, I don't like people that shout often without good reason. I remember Riker opening his big mouth and yelling something, I don't always remember what he was yelling about, nor do I really care to. I don't think he's a very good character, the episodes where he gets a lot of lines are usually mediocre at best. I don't know if it's the actor that is at fault, since I've never seen him in anything else nor someone else reprise the role.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Future Imperfect: "YOU'RE NOT CAPABLE OF THAT KIND OF INCOMPETENCE!"

I like to imagine at some point, he yelled that at a person who just made a mistake, thinking that he was in a holodeck simulation.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Future Imperfect: "YOU'RE NOT CAPABLE OF THAT KIND OF INCOMPETENCE!"

I like to imagine at some point, he yelled that at a person who just made a mistake, thinking that he was in a holodeck simulation.

Yes, that's precisely the kind of behavior I was talking about. I mean, if it's a simulation then arguing with the simulacra is pointless and a bit stupid to tell the truth. It's no better than the people that argue with their television sets... As soon as he discovered that it was a holodeck, the normal response would have been to stop and say: "Ok, to whomever is running this program, I've seen through your scheme, you can stop now." This is what he did eventually but, he could have dispensed with the melodrama...

 

[ozzfloyd]

I have to admit Riker is one of my less favorite characters in TNG, he was simply less interesting than most of the others, really had the least potential for development/story lines (especially once they basically admitted that he was a static character and kept around in order not to lose Johnathan Frakes) and, in my eyes was the TNG character who would have fit most into TOS without changing much about him.

However his yelling is a bit of an odd thing to criticize almost every character in ST yells at some point or the other, or behaves aggressively with little reason.

There's plenty of other things to criticize about Old Will:

-His douchy behavior towards Barclay (being a smug douche) and Ro Laren (being a anal-retentive douche) as already noted above
-His douchbaggery towards Troi (Sure you can cuddle with me, just get lost when the hawt alien of the week comes along and I wanna bone her instead! <- Just one of the reasons I would have rather seen Deanna with Worf)
-The womanizing (I generally find characters who change partners often less interesting, also would he have showed as much interest in Yuta or Soren if he didn't want to bang them? I don't think so. Reminds me of Kirk btw.)
-His monkey-like posturing and jumping about, especially in Season 1. (which also really reminds me of Kirk btw.)

However there's also a little bit that makes Riker a bit sympathetic and explains (if not excuses) his behavior. Kyle Riker. I can see that growing up only with that douche of a father for family Riker turn out messed up and with quite a bit a screwed idea about what it means to be a man (hence the womanizing and douchbaggery, and even the yelling).
In a way this also fits with him sticking around the Enterprise for as long as he did, in a way Picard was more a father to him, and the rest of the senior stuff more a family, than Kyle Riker ever was. He was a little boy trying to stick with his family and play a grownup/behave like he thought a grownup man would behave.

I have sensitive hearing, I don't like people that shout often without good reason. I remember Riker opening his big mouth and yelling something, I don't always remember what he was yelling about, nor do I really care to. I don't think he's a very good character, the episodes where he gets a lot of lines are usually mediocre at best. I don't know if it's the actor that is at fault, since I've never seen him in anything else nor someone else reprise the role.

Ah. So you admit the problem here is you.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I don't know...I sort of see the validity of the point of Riker "yelling at everybody", to put it generically.

I wouldn't even give it a second thought, had it not been for season 2's Peak Performance. I've mentioned this somewhere on this board before, but that episode goes out of its way to characterize Riker as a leader who engenders trust and top performance of his people through his use of humor.

Immediately following the episode, however, that supposed trait largely disappears, at least on screen.

Which leads me to wondering what the point of all that was, if it was just going to be ignored.

 

[Trekker4747]

As Q said, "Commander Riker, you're so stollid! You weren't like this without the beard!"

It does seem Riker goes through a character change between season 2 and season 3 where Riker becomes a lot sterner and not quite as fun-loving. I suppose maybe this was done to make Riker less "Kirk-like" which he pretty much was in the first two seasons, especially the first season.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

As Q said, "Commander Riker, you're so stollid! You weren't like this without the beard!"

It does seem Riker goes through a character change between season 2 and season 3 where Riker becomes a lot sterner and not quite as fun-loving. I suppose maybe this was done to make Riker less "Kirk-like" which he pretty much was in the first two seasons, especially the first season.

Riker was never "kirk-like", maybe a parody of Kirk, (if we squint really hard and look at it from a distance!). Kirk is likeable, he has dimensions, his love of Edith Keeler, his hurt when he realized that he had to let her die. His distress when his son was executed. His moving eulogy when Spock died... Riker never did anything like this, he's too superfical for that. He's a brute. The only thing that could be construed as "kirk-like" was his womanizing.