Paramount had two proposals for a space station themed show on the table. They went with the pitch that tied in with an established, profitable product.
The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing
- Thread starter Forbin
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In what year?
You tell me. What was the timeline between the rejection of the B5 proposal and the beginning of DS9?
Actually, you tell us. You were the one who claimed that Paramount was looking at two pitches at the same time and chose the one that tied in with their established product.
Yes, exactly. In what year were the two pitches supposedly on the table before Paramount at the same time?
Actually, I don't think it has ever been confirmed when JMS proposed the idea to Paramount. If you look online, he took his pilot script, concept art, and bible to every major network. The show and its ideas were probably not a secret at the time.
Add to that, the concept of a science fiction series on a space station is so basic that networks had probably received many proposals during the pre-production period.
As other posters have said, JMS has made the claims that his idea had be ripped off, and it is up to him to back them up.
Add to that, the concept of a science fiction series on a space station is so basic that networks had probably received many proposals during the pre-production period.
As other posters have said, JMS has made the claims that his idea had be ripped off, and it is up to him to back them up.
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JMS didn't invent the notion of space stations nor was he the first person to come up with an SF story based on a space station. He might have seeded the idea of a show based on a space station in the minds of Paramount execs but Star Trek had already done episodes and movies involving space stations as elements. It's like claiming that a Western set in a one-horse frontier town rip-offs off other such Westerns that preceded it. That's only true in the most superficial sense unless substantial similarities exist in the plots, characterisations, and scripts. DS9 differs from B5 in many aspects and is similar in only a trivial few. JMS was lucky to get to tell his story at all, never mind to completion.
I agree. I am a fan of B5 because I like SF and what the series was attempting to do and what it accomplished (two different things) but whenever I have tried to sell the series to friends I always got a response similar to "it's trying to do Star Trek but the acting is really bad". Neither of those critiques I agree with, but the point is that B5 has never been accessible to non-science fiction fans.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of the similarities between B5 and DS9 are probably the result of JMS and the DS9 team both facing similar creative challenges ("how to set your show apart from the 800-lbs gorilla that is TNG") and operating in a similar pop culture zeitgeist. It's no more evidence of any kind of plagiarism than the similarities between Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and Captain America: Civil War.
I read somewhere that Crusade was conceived of as a TNG-type spaceship-based show set in the B5 universe. However, people usually compare it to the anime Space Battleship Yamato aka Star Blazers; something with which hardly anyone outside Japan has any familiarity although it was hugely influential there. Perhaps JMS was inspired by it - I don't know. Crusade failed, which is a pity as I thought it had promise. I wasn't interested in the anime on which it was supposedly based. A five-year run of Crusade would have ended about 16 years ago.
My statement was in reply to previous posts-- I could write "So it seems like Paramount had two proposals..." if that is less offensive to you.
JMS' "Crusade" was a wholesale ripoff of the 1973 Japanese Anime series "Space Battleship Yamato"; substituting 5 years in place of the 1 year to 'save the Earth'. Hell, the big Excalibur 'Vorlon Main Gun' operated (and had the same pitfalls) exactly like the Yamato's 'Wave Motion Gun'.
Hmm, are there any other points of commonality apart from saving the Earth and a main weapon with a long recharge time? The first of those seems a little bit generic; the second does appear to be borrowed but it doesn't strike me as anything like wholesale theft of intellectual property. Are there any similarities in episode storylines or characters? At least the Excalibur wasn't a WW2 battleship recovered from the depths of the Pacific Ocean and converted into a spaceship - something that always sounded ludicrous to me - and especially now we know the Yamato was broken in two.JMS' "Crusade" was a wholesale ripoff of the 1973 Japanese Anime series "Space Battleship Yamato"; substituting 5 years in place of the 1 year to 'save the Earth'. Hell, the big Excalibur 'Vorlon Main Gun' operated (and had the same pitfalls) exactly like the Yamato's 'Wave Motion Gun'.
Aside from Yamato, the other frequent comparison I hear with Crusade (which is probably more on-the-money, considering the common influences between it and JMS) is a Dungeons and Dragons party. You have a paladin, a healer, a wizard, a thief, a bard (well, an archeologist)...
A lot of things in B5 make more sense if you assume JMS really wanted to write epic fantasy. I mean, a thieves' guild? Rangers? (Techno)mages?
Those are prime examples of times where JMS borrowed elements from Tolkien. I mean, Z'ha'dm, Khazad-dûm?
Yes, JMS deliberately included homages to Tolkien - that much is obvious. Another example: Sheridan and the remaining First Ones going beyond the Rim was JMS's version of Frodo and the elves sailing to the Undying Lands. Not close enough that Tolkien's estate could sue, however. And even Tolkien was riffing on old myths and tales to try to create a new folklore. Nothing new under the sun and all that...
It makes the show better for it. I mean, I was not a fan, especially with the whole Psi Corps aspect, but getting to rewatch it with this viewpoint has made it far more enjoyable.
