The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

[Forbin]

As a big fan of both shows i find this subject fascinating purely from an intellectual point of view. I really hope, that this could be discussed in a rational and friendly manner without any wars, holy or otherwise.

That was my intent, and that's always my hope.
Doesn't seem to be going well.
People let their anger take over.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

As a big fan of both shows i find this subject fascinating purely from an intellectual point of view. I really hope, that this could be discussed in a rational and friendly manner without any wars, holy or otherwise.

That was my intent, and that's always my hope.
Doesn't seem to be going well.
People let their anger take over.

What "anger" has there been in this thread? Seems to me it's you who is getting extremely defensive at the mere suggestion that the "evidence" you posted has little or no basis in fact.

 

[Pingfah]

That was my intent, and that's always my hope.
Doesn't seem to be going well.
People let their anger take over.

It is perfectly valid to question the authenticity of the claim. I don't know why people acting rationally would irritate you so much.

 

[MacLeod]

The way I see it you have those that

a.>like both
b.>like DSN and don't like B5
c.>like B5 and don't like DSN

If you like both great, if you like one or the other great. But do we really need to have the whole DSN stole from B5 etc... debate again. It's old and I suspect not many people really care.

TV shows have been borrowing from one another since as long as TV was around.

 

[JoeD80]

I think Hopstaken's timeline is a little off. Babylon 5 was already in its first season when the Chris-Craft stations decided to pull out of PTEN and form the core of UPN.

 

[ChristopherPike]

By the time he's done with Enterprise on Blu ray, I'll be expecting a suitably dishy documentary on the development of Deep Space Nine from Robert Meyer Burnett.

I'll imagine they'll be lawyers standing over him in the editing suite!

 

[Forbin]

As a big fan of both shows i find this subject fascinating purely from an intellectual point of view. I really hope, that this could be discussed in a rational and friendly manner without any wars, holy or otherwise.

That was my intent, and that's always my hope.
Doesn't seem to be going well.
People let their anger take over.

What "anger" has there been in this thread? Seems to me it's you who is getting extremely defensive at the mere suggestion that the "evidence" you posted has little or no basis in fact.

That was my intent, and that's always my hope.
Doesn't seem to be going well.
People let their anger take over.

It is perfectly valid to question the authenticity of the claim. I don't know why people acting rationally would irritate you so much.

Are you guys just making stuff up now in some effort to belittle to topic? I'm neither defensive nor irritated. I'm observing and occasionally commenting.

 

[Avon]

but its about as reliable a source as seeing someone commenting under the name 'rick berman' and saying voyager's 8472 liquid space was an attempt to turn the show into SeaQuest.

 

[Servo]

I didn't give a shit then, and I don't give a shit now. And yeah, some random blog post from some unverified guy is no proof anyway.

 

[Takeru]

Oh is THAT how this is supposed to work?

Uh ... yes, that's how it's supposed to work.

But you already know that, this is just a lame attempt to evade answering a simple question, what parts of the Babylon 5 pilot script were copied by Paramount?
I'm making this really easy for you, I'm not even asking for evidence, just a simple list of what was reused.

 

[davejames]

It's very likely that B5 probably inspired the idea of setting the next Trek series on a space station in the first place.... but other than that, I have a hard time seeing any similarities between the two.

Heck, as far as I'm concerned (judging from the B5 pilot at least), Paramount only improved on the idea in every possible way-- with better writing, more action, a cooler station, and more charming and dynamic characters.

 

[Jan]

...what parts of the Babylon 5 pilot script were copied by Paramount?

I know I'm going to regret this but perhaps this would help since you're so insistant:

Re: the "stupid thread," and the "effective end of similarity" being that
the two shows were set on space stations...oh, you mean absent the fact that
the two shows both were helmed by commander ranked officers who had survived
major and emotionally devastating battles, both had female seconds-in-command,
both had a shapeshifter in their pilots, both had the female second leading a
counter-attack to a massive attack in that same pilot, and a lot of other
stuff in common....oh, you mean absent all THAT it's the "effective end of
similarity." Gotcha.

Then we can look at character name similarities such as Dukhat / Dukat and Lyta / Leeta

Note, however, that JMS has always steadfastly maintained that the ones directly involved with the show never would have done anything dishonorable and that any steering toward similar elements would have come from the development people.

Now then...does anybody else find it sad that this ancient fued has more posts than the 20th anniversary celebration thread?

Jan

 

[Sean_McCormick]

My understanding of that quote is not, that lines or scenes from the finished script for the pilot were copied, but concepts and themes from the pitch. As i said before, many of the themes that form early B5 also are at the core of early DS9.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

JMS should stop posting on Facebook and start getting a new space opera show on TV.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

That we all can agree on.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Now I'll disagree with myself...I should have said Netflix or Amazon, not "TV." That's where space opera has a real shot.

 

[RandyS]

JMS pitched B5 to Paramount. Paramount declined. Shortly after, DS9 was announced.

People who think DS9 is a ripoff simply because it used a space station setting like B5 need to get over it. Other than being space station based, they have little in common.

So what if Paramount was pitched B5, liked the space station setting, and decided to use it for their next Trek show? No one owns such broad concepts, and it makes B5 fans look petulant to still be on about this almost 20 years later.

Agreed. I liked both then, I like both now.

Speaking for myself, that's all that matters.

 

[Forbin]

Oh is THAT how this is supposed to work?

Uh ... yes, that's how it's supposed to work.

But you already know that, this is just a lame attempt to evade answering a simple question, what parts of the Babylon 5 pilot script were copied by Paramount?
I'm making this really easy for you, I'm not even asking for evidence, just a simple list of what was reused.

Dude, I posted an interesting article and stated no viewpoint. You're the one having a hissy fit. It's not up to me to defend or promote anything.

Here's another interesting article:
http://io9.com/5985727/the-strange-secret-evolution-of-babylon-5
jms mentions his initial reaction to what he perceived as similarities in the section "the other show."

I present this as historical information only.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The phenomenon of TV copying each other is well known. Last year there were two Beauty & the Beast shows in contention. Serial killers seem to be the big thing this year. For next season, there are two shows where the gimmick is that Dracula, Frankenstein et al are in the same story.

If only there were so many space operas bumping heads that they were copying each other or seeming to. Why should I care if some show steals from another? That's for the lawyers to sort out. If they got a case, go for it. The fact that nobody is suing right now is proof that there's not enough of a case to interest a lawyer because in California, there are so many lawyers per capita that they'll jump on any vaguely viable case like hungry hyenas.

 

[Takeru]

Dude, I posted an interesting article and stated no viewpoint. You're the one having a hissy fit. It's not up to me to defend or promote anything.

I'm not having a hissy fit, but you at least implied a viewpoint when you started talking about evidence. I just asked you to back that up.

I present this as historical information only.

Yeah right, that's why you posted this:

Ah, the internet. "The evidence isn't what I want to hear, therefore the poster is full of shit and not who he says he is!"

And just for the record, calling this stuff historical information is stating a viewpoint. Believe what you want, but don't act like you're a historian when you're obviouly shit stirring.


@Jan: I've heard most of those similarities before, but those are really superficial, they aren't even really similar if you look at the execution of those ideas.