The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor....

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just wait for whatever convoluted explaination Moffat gives us, nobody was able to guess River Song's secret or Clara's either for that matter.

LOL what?? TONS of people guessed both "River Song is the little girl and the little girl is Amy and Rory's child" AND "The 'real' Clara is the present day one who somehow gets split across time ala the Jagaroth." Which is... exactly what happened with both.

I think you're missing DWF's sarcasm.

Moffat either writes plot twists that are so blindly obvious that an infant can guess them -- or he writes plot twists that are so nonsensical and ungrounded that he clearly pulled them straight from his ass.

 

[DWF]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just wait for whatever convoluted explaination Moffat gives us, nobody was able to guess River Song's secret or Clara's either for that matter.

LOL what?? TONS of people guessed both "River Song is the little girl and the little girl is Amy and Rory's child" AND "The 'real' Clara is the present day one who somehow gets split across time ala the Jagaroth." Which is... exactly what happened with both.

I think you're missing DWF's sarcasm.

Moffat either writes plot twists that are so blindly obvious that an infant can guess them -- or he writes plot twists that are so nonsensical and ungrounded that he clearly pulled them straight from his ass.

And sadly the latter is more often true than the former. I don't know how John Hurt's Doctor can be a Doctor and yet not be a Doctor, since it was stated by Clara in The Name Of The Doctor that Smith's Dcotor is the 11th.

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Rassilion addressed thousands of Time Lords in The End Of Time so it's obvious that there were many left by the end of the war.

I only say the ones in the High Council chamber. What makes you think there were thousands.

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Moffat either writes plot twists that are so blindly obvious that an infant can guess them -- or he writes plot twists that are so nonsensical and ungrounded that he clearly pulled them straight from his ass.

Being predictable is not his problems. It's painting himself in a corner.

 

[DWF]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Rassilion addressed thousands of Time Lords in The End Of Time so it's obvious that there were many left by the end of the war.

I only say the ones in the High Council chamber. What makes you think there were thousands.

Did you forget the "For Gallifrey!" speech where Timothy Dalton spit out the words?

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Rassilion addressed thousands of Time Lords in The End Of Time so it's obvious that there were many left by the end of the war.

I only say the ones in the High Council chamber. What makes you think there were thousands.

Did you forget the "For Gallifrey!" speech where Timothy Dalton spit out the words?

LOL, literally spit out the words.

Yea, that room looked about as big as the Star Wars Prequels Senate Hall and was filled with people, The High Council wouldn't consist of more than 10 or so members. There is no way all those attendees were part of the High Council

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Yea, that room looked about as big as the Star Wars Prequels Senate Hall and was filled with people, The High Council wouldn't consist of more than 10 or so members. There is no way all those attendees were part of the High Council

Why not. Rassilon mentioned voting and I assumed all of the Time Lords shown were part of the High Council. The American Senate and Congress is only 535 individuals. That's about the number in the scene.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Yea, that room looked about as big as the Star Wars Prequels Senate Hall and was filled with people, The High Council wouldn't consist of more than 10 or so members. There is no way all those attendees were part of the High Council

Why not. Rassilon mentioned voting and I assumed all of the Time Lords shown were part of the High Council. The American Senate and Congress is only 535 individuals. That's about the number in the scene.

Because the Senate and Congress are not Equivalent to the High Council. The High Council has been shown in the past to be a very small number. The folks sitting around the table discussing their dilemma are far more likely to be the High Council than that room full of people.

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Because the Senate and Congress are not Equivalent to the High Council. The High Council has been shown in the past to be a very small number. The folks sitting around the table discussing their dilemma are far more likely to be the High Council than that room full of people.

I thought the people sitting around Rassilon was his cabinet or inner circle. Let me see if I can find a copy of "End of Time" and see how he addresses them.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Yea, please let me know, I thought it was merely my fellow Tmelords, or something similar, but, I could be wrong,

Using the word "High" in High Council, to me suggests, they are elevated above all other Time Lords (And not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords), so, it's seems awfully excessive for a High Council to be made up of so many.

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

How many people are in the house of lords and parliment? I was thinking that the house of lords was pretty big or used to be (before the wars). Maybe that is what they are basing it on. Sorry not familiar with Great Britians govt. Iam more into your royalty, doctor who and castles.

 

[Starkers]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

I believe there are approx 600 MPs in the Commons, not sure the figure of the Lords and can't be arsed to check Wikipedia

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just wait for whatever convoluted explaination Moffat gives us, nobody was able to guess River Song's secret or Clara's either for that matter.

LOL what?? TONS of people guessed both "River Song is the little girl and the little girl is Amy and Rory's child" AND "The 'real' Clara is the present day one who somehow gets split across time ala the Jagaroth." Which is... exactly what happened with both.

Did people actually have those predicted, or was it simply a case of the spoilers having been posted online far enough in advance? I know during season 5 no one guessed River was Amy and Rory's daughter. And present day Clara being the real one wasn't in consideration after The Snowmen aired.

 

[Starkers]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

At the end of the day in today's world where people discuss and cogitate things online it's easy for people to come up with the right answer. People had formulated all sorts of possible solutions for who River was, and I think (yet again) some people miss the point. Some fans may have figured it out, but I reckon a great many people who watch and enjoy Who--but who don't spend every minute focusing on the minutiae of every episode-- were probably surprised. Plus as I recall the facts of Amy/River were posted online weeks before the episode anyway.

The essence of a good twist is that it should, in hindsight, be obvious, which Melody Pond/River Song was, as was Clara, but no people wanted Moffat to come up with something they didn't see coming, which is the worst kind of twist, like old fashioned crime stories where the detective solves the crime by suddenly bringing up evidence the reader was never aware of.

 

[DWF]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

River being revealed as Amy's daughter was spoilered during the filming of The Wedding Of River Song, which was even before the season had started to air, In fact the scene went viral after being recorded on somebody's cell phone. Before that there was speculation but nothing more as with Clara.

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

At the end of the day in today's world where people discuss and cogitate things online it's easy for people to come up with the right answer. People had formulated all sorts of possible solutions for who River was, and I think (yet again) some people miss the point. Some fans may have figured it out, but I reckon a great many people who watch and enjoy Who--but who don't spend every minute focusing on the minutiae of every episode-- were probably surprised. Plus as I recall the facts of Amy/River were posted online weeks before the episode anyway

The essence of a good twist is that it should, in hindsight, be obvious, which Melody Pond/River Song was, as was Clara, but no people wanted Moffat to come up with something they didn't see coming, which is the worst kind of twist, like old fashioned crime stories where the detective solves the crime by suddenly bringing up evidence the reader was never aware of.

I totally agree, I realy enjoy Moffat's storytelling, and I hope he does alot more Doctor who.


I just try to enjoy the show so the trying to make something out of a minute scene (stupid ducks in a duckless pond for one) seems a bit much for me. Or trying to come up with outlandish outcomes that storywise make absolutely no sense. I wasn't spoiled about the River storyline. I had started to wonder if that is where they were heading with the story. NOt sure when it started me on the path to that. But I was still very pleasently surprised and happy with the outcome.

 

[intrinsical]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just wait for whatever convoluted explaination Moffat gives us, nobody was able to guess River Song's secret or Clara's either for that matter.

LOL what?? TONS of people guessed both "River Song is the little girl and the little girl is Amy and Rory's child" AND "The 'real' Clara is the present day one who somehow gets split across time ala the Jagaroth." Which is... exactly what happened with both.

Did people actually have those predicted, or was it simply a case of the spoilers having been posted online far enough in advance? I know during season 5 no one guessed River was Amy and Rory's daughter. And present day Clara being the real one wasn't in consideration after The Snowmen aired.

When Amy Pond was announced as the new companion's name, a lot of people immediately remarked on how she, River Song and Jackson Lake (The Next Doctor) had names that are all related with water. Heck, I even remember a thread here remarking about the water connection. Its not a prediction per se, but many definitely guessed there was some sort of relationship, or that they were the same person.

 

[Starkers]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

But there was no connection to Jackson Lake?

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Sometimes a name is just a name and sometimes a duckless pond is just duckless.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Yea, and "There's no water in the Forest besides River" suggested something was happening to Amy and/or River, it doesn't in any way make you leap to the idea that a Pond was named River, because they didn't have any other word to use for Pond, (except in hindsight when you know River's Arc)