The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor....

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I do apologize in advance for this, but seeing as how the 50th anniversary thread has some 30+ pages of comments and I wished to make a thread in which the discussion would be more centered on the revelation of "The Name of the Doctor"... Well, that.

So anyway, who do you think he is? Is he the Eighth Doctor, only a lot more aged? Is he Eight-and-a-half? Is he pre-Hartnell? Or perhaps he's The Valeyard?

What do you think?

 

[Shazam!]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

The general consensus is that he's a Doctor between 8-9. There's no real evidence to support this mind, save for some tenuous links between items of clothing that Hurt is wearing.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

There's already been a thread specifically about this subject, complete with poll.

 

[StCoop]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

The end of TNOTD pretty much answered the question. He's not a "forgotten" incarnation as the original speculation went since Smith knows exactly who he is. He wasn't worthy of being called "Doctor" which allows him to be one of his past selves which not dirsupting the numbering. (Matt Smith is the 11th Doctor but the 12th body for this particular Time Lord.)

I just hope the Moffat isn't going to have him be the one who ended the Time War as that would contadict Eccleston's entire arc.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Wasn't aware there was a thread, sorry about that. Should this thread be pruned, or keep it?

Beyond that, I also think if he's the one who ended the Time War would be anticlimactic. And, it wouldn't be a secret, now would it? The secret is aimed at the viewers too, and all fans that watch the show know this.

But perhaps, if he has to be the 8.5 Doctor, he's the one that started the War?

 

[Turbo]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Wasn't aware there was a thread, sorry about that. Should this thread be pruned, or keep it?

Beyond that, I also think if he's the one who ended the Time War would be anticlimactic. And, it wouldn't be a secret, now would it? The secret is aimed at the viewers too, and all fans that watch the show know this.

But perhaps, if he has to be the 8.5 Doctor, he's the one that started the War?

IIRC, RTD's stance was that the Time Lords recruiting the Fourth Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks was actually the start of the war.

 

[Captain Nebula]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

The end of TNOTD pretty much answered the question. He's not a "forgotten" incarnation as the original speculation went since Smith knows exactly who he is. He wasn't worthy of being called "Doctor" which allows him to be one of his past selves which not dirsupting the numbering. (Matt Smith is the 11th Doctor but the 12th body for this particular Time Lord.)

I just hope the Moffat isn't going to have him be the one who ended the Time War as that would contadict Eccleston's entire arc.

Why does it contradict Eccelston's Arc? McGann's Doctor could've changed into the HurtDoctor, who did terrible things during the Time War, and using the Moment (or whatever his final devastating act was) in the Time War could've resulted in HurtDoctor's "dying" and Regenerating into Eccelston, making him born in the Fire of War (or however it was put).

As far as Eccelston, being so surprised about what he looked like, The Doctor is always messed up and confused during his Regenerations, so after having just killed his entire race, he probably didn't get around to loooking in the mirror right away, and the Eccelston Doctor could've been travelling for a couple hundred years without noticing the time had past, or he may very well have Regenerated a mere hours or days before meeting Rose, we don't have any proof either way, other than surprise of what he now looks like

I'm not convinced he is an incarnation between McGann and Eccelston, but, I don't see how that would contradict Eccelston's Arc?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Wasn't aware there was a thread, sorry about that. Should this thread be pruned, or keep it?

Beyond that, I also think if he's the one who ended the Time War would be anticlimactic. And, it wouldn't be a secret, now would it? The secret is aimed at the viewers too, and all fans that watch the show know this.

But perhaps, if he has to be the 8.5 Doctor, he's the one that started the War?

IIRC, RTD's stance was that the Time Lords recruiting the Fourth Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks was actually the start of the war.

I didn't know that. Thats actually kind of genius, really.

But maybe he started the actual conflict, the actual War engagement, Hurt's Doctor? Just a thought.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

What I don't understand is, the 8th died during the War, and its assumed that the 9th actually ended it - and he made that statement towards that one Dalek, too.

What I fail to understand is, if this is a Time War Doctor, why is he a secret? The 9th very visibly was the post-War Doctor, but he aknowledged the events anyway. And the 10th Doctor even elaborated on it greatly, especially in the End of Time two-parter. So what could the Doctor have done that would even constitute as a secret during that era, I ask.

 

[Lance]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

IIRC, RTD's stance was that the Time Lords recruiting the Fourth Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks was actually the start of the war.

I'm no apologist for the RTD era, but one of the cleverest things I think he ever said was that little line right there. It threw everybody for a loop - here we were wondering what the Time War had been like, only to learn that we'd been watching the Time War all along!

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

What I don't understand is, the 8th died during the War, and its assumed that the 9th actually ended it - and he made that statement towards that one Dalek, too.

What I fail to understand is, if this is a Time War Doctor, why is he a secret? The 9th very visibly was the post-War Doctor, but he aknowledged the events anyway. And the 10th Doctor even elaborated on it greatly, especially in the End of Time two-parter. So what could the Doctor have done that would even constitute as a secret during that era, I ask.

We don't know the 8th died in the Time War, all we know from Televised Doctor Who is that sometime after McCoy Regenerated into McGann The Time Lords were Time locked/Destroyed, or whatever, and we know Eccelston was still feeling guilty and Depressed from the Actions he took (But, we don't know what face he wore when taking those actions).

Because we "know" McGann was Eight and Eccelston was Nine, we assume McGann ended the Time War and Regenerated into Eccelston (And we assume Rose is shortly after the Regeneration, because of Eccelston's state of mind and not knowing what he looks like, but, that's easy to dismiss). But, that's all conjecture, that gets tossed out the window, if there is another Regeneration in between McGann and Eccelston, we don't know about.

I most definitely agree, that the guilt Eccelston and Tennant carried around and the things they did vocalize does put a damper on HurtDoctor's Secret shameful lifetime being The Doctor's actions in The Time War.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

That was the rumour being reported before The Name of the Doctor aired. That episode made it clear that Hurt is an incarnation of the Time Lord known as the Doctor and is implied to be an incarnation that comes before the Eleventh, given he is spoken of in the past tense. And despite the final scene saying "Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor" this incarnation wasn't actually considered to be the Doctor, therefore they don't have to adjust anyone's numerical identification.

If he is indeed somewhere before Smith, than the only options are pre-Hartnell (which could tie-in with the other faces seen in Brain of Morbius) or between McGann and Eccleston (since that's the only other gap he could fit in).

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

My kooky theory is maybe hurt doctor is the one who helped to create all the horrors of the war. (nightmare child etc) During that time he recarninated into 9 before or after he did the moment.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

That was the rumour being reported before The Name of the Doctor aired. That episode made it clear that Hurt is an incarnation of the Time Lord known as the Doctor and is implied to be an incarnation that comes before the Eleventh, given he is spoken of in the past tense. And despite the final scene saying "Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor" this incarnation wasn't actually considered to be the Doctor, therefore they don't have to adjust anyone's numerical identification.

If he is indeed somewhere before Smith, than the only options are pre-Hartnell (which could tie-in with the other faces seen in Brain of Morbius) or between McGann and Eccleston (since that's the only other gap he could fit in).

He could also be between Troughton and Pertwee. We don't see the change, we only see Troughton swirling, and then Pertwee pops outta The TARDIS (In Color) in the next episode.

Troughton could've been force regenerated into HurtDoctor and been incredibly bitter they stole a Regeneration from him and gone off the deep end, dropping the name, and doing horrible things. Then when his lifetime is over he regenerates into Pertwee.

I'm more onboard with Pre-Hartnell or between 8 and 9, I'm just saying between 2 and 3 is just as possible.

 

[Samurai8472]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

 

[Saga]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"

8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

this seems to be the most likely theory. and the best one i've heard.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

That's silly - Eccleston said quite clearly in Dalek that "I MADE IT HAPPEN!" so they can't go around saying 'Hurtnell' isn't a true Doctor because what he did in the Time War because Eccleston was happy to admit what he did.

 

[Saga]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

That's silly - Eccleston said quite clearly in Dalek that "I MADE IT HAPPEN!" so they can't go around saying 'Hurtnell' isn't a true Doctor because what he did in the Time War because Eccleston was happy to admit what he did.

well, there are two ways to interpret that line. I, referring to the 9th Doctor specifically...or I, referring to the Doctor in general.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

That's silly - Eccleston said quite clearly in Dalek that "I MADE IT HAPPEN!" so they can't go around saying 'Hurtnell' isn't a true Doctor because what he did in the Time War because Eccleston was happy to admit what he did.

well, there are two ways to interpret that line. I, referring to the 9th Doctor specifically...or I, referring to the Doctor in general.

Either way the Doctor accepts he did that. In the name of the Doctor.

What Hurtnell did must've been far worse.

Somehow.