The 'night' shift?

[Capt Mars]

Ive been wondering this for awhile. Why is it when Harry Kim is 'captain' of the ship and Tom Paris gives him a complement about that...Harry is always like 'big deal...its just the night shift'

What does that even mean? Is Harry thinking that he wont run into any conflict or aliens might not attack because its 'night time'? Wouldn't being in charge during the 'night shift' be just as dangerous and you'd have to be just as much focused and making sure everything is running right than any other time of the day?

Borg dont care what time it is. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Timo]

Minding the bridge is always rather menial job - the lower-downs are supposedly expected to hand over the center seat to the true boss if anything actually happens.

But many starships appear to organize their day-night cycles so that the Big Boss or at least his Executive actually sits in the center seat during his awake shift, even when nothing happens. Thus, only the shift when both the CO and the XO are asleep really becomes "menial", and this appears to be the one when the ship experiences an artificial and universal night.

Ships with four shifts might well have two "menial" shifts, only one of which is "night". Or skippers other than Picard might stay far away from the bridge unless summoned to deal with an Event. It's just that Janeway, too, loves to lurk behind the bridge door in her ready room much of the time. (At least in TNG, we very seldom caught the ship when nothing interesting was happening, so the presence of Picard or Riker in the center seat could be explained by the alert status.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Aliens always know to attack during Starship daytime hours, when the alpha shit is on.

I'm pretty sure there are meant to be 3 or 4 shifts per day, so the Kazon and Borg only ever attack between 0900 and 1400. Or something.

 

[Capt Mars]

Aliens always know to attack during Starship daytime hours, when the alpha shit is on.

I'm pretty sure there are meant to be 3 or 4 shifts per day, so the Kazon and Borg only ever attack between 0900 and 1400. Or something.

hahah borg are like 'theres voyager...lets get them...oh wait...its 12 at night...We not fighting harry kim...forget that...we'll come back in the morning. We want to verse the alpha dog...Janeway.'

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Well, it seems that even ennemies guesses/thought Enseign Harry Kim in Captain's chair, wasn't worth wasting time ann energy!

 

[Kor]

Yeah, the "night shift" thing wasn't thought out very well. But I don't think VOY was the only Trek show that had this concept.

Kor

 

[Nerys Myk]

But there are some sweet sounds coming down on the night shift.

 

[Timewalker]

Well, it seems that even ennemies guesses/thought Enseign Harry Kim in Captain's chair, wasn't worth wasting time ann energy!

In that case, they should have put Harry in charge of the Bridge all the time, for a worry-free trip home.

Yeah, the "night shift" thing wasn't thought out very well. But I don't think VOY was the only Trek show that had this concept.

Kor

Back in the days of TOS it was decided that since humans make up the majority of the starship crews and humans' circadian rhythms are based on a 24-hour cycle, for the sake of their health (physical and mental) there would be an 8-hour period of "night" on board the ships.

To the best of my knowledge, this has been so in TOS, TNG, and Voyager (not sure what arrangements, if any, were made for the other series).

 

[Six of Twelve]

I understand why they made a "night" shift, even though there is no night or day in space, but as others have said, it's laughable to assume that night shift meant that it was sleep time for all the ships in space or that all species had a 24 hour daily rotation like Earth does.

And wasn't it in acknowledgement of this that they went to stardates, rather than using month /day/year dates?

 

[Timo]

We have no reason to think the days and nights of other ships would be in synch with the hero ship. I mean, what reason could we have?

But assuming 24 hour rotation everywhere is a good assumption in Star Trek specifically, because apparently all humanoids are related, deliberately engineered to evolve because some ancient humanoids wanted more of their kind. And naturally they will terraform planets to their liking, and that liking will converge toward a single galactic standard because anybody deviating from it will

a) be fighting against the ancient biological norm for his species, and
b) be at a disadvantage when the empires of others more readily find planets to their exact liking.

And indeed the day-night cycles on humanoid worlds appear little different from that of Earth no matter where we look in Trek.

For the same reason, the length of the year on Vulcan or Qo'noS might be expected to deviate little from that on Earth. But years are not important to biological rhythms, not for humans anyway, and we could very well live with summers that are fifty years long, say. It's more important to have your planet at the correct distance from your star in terms of incident energies, and those depend on the type of the star: the dimmer, the closer you have to orbit, and the shorter your year.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

And wasn't it in acknowledgement of this that they went to stardates, rather than using month /day/year dates?

It was mostly so they didn't have to pin down a specific era. Episodes of TOS hinted at the show being between 200 and 700 years in the future. But when the movies came along they decided "In the 23rd century" sounded cool.

That, and relativity, which was then only ever used for a single episode in Trek's 51-year history (VOY: "Blink of an Eye")

 

[Timewalker]

But years are not important to biological rhythms, not for humans anyway, and we could very well live with summers that are fifty years long, say.

Let me guess: You live in California where there's only ever one season, and you don't do any gardening or notice the seasonal cycles of flowers and trees and wild animals.

In my region of Canada, summer lasts about two months. Fall started in August here, and it was pretty short this year, since we started getting snow storms in September (a good thing, since there were still a number of forest fires burning and the snow took care of those).

As far as I'm concerned, it's early winter here now, although we don't currently have snow on the ground. There's quite a cold wind storm blowing right now, though. Snow on Halloween wouldn't surprise me one bit.

A 50-year-long summer would wreak havoc on trying to grow any sort of terrestrial crops in a natural setting. They'd have to be grown in greenhouses or genetically modified to the point where they'd basically be different plants.

And can you imagine the psychological consequences for people who are used to more than one or two seasons per year? I would go insane if I had to live in a place where there was never any fall or winter. Spring is a misery due to allergies, and summer is both too hot and too many mosquitoes.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

In that case, they should have put Harry in charge of the Bridge all the time, for a worry-free trip home.

Yes but, it would have been boring to always see Harry almost ‎slouched in the Captain's seat (not very professional, btw!), playing clarinet and asking occasionally, the position of Voyager to the helm pilot or to the operations officer, don't you think?!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I saw the title of this and immediately thought of the Robot Chicken TNG "Night Shift" sketch

Ive been wondering this for awhile. Why is it when Harry Kim is 'captain' of the ship and Tom Paris gives him a complement about that...Harry is always like 'big deal...its just the night shift'

It means that Kim is being quite insolent. When you have the likes of Lieutenants Carey and Baxter or even Ensign Rollins, all of whom are far more experienced and would be a far more logical candidate to supervise one of the other shifts, Kim is a bit of a dick about it. This is a huge amount of faith being placed on someone who has difficulties rising above the rank of Ensign, but he is so blasé about it then the offer should be withdrawn and given to a more deserving member of the crew who would appreciate the opportunity for what it is.

 

[Timo]

Let me guess: You live in California where there's only ever one season, and you don't do any gardening or notice the seasonal cycles of flowers and trees and wild animals.

Naah, I live in Canada, too. Or the European equivalent thereto, at any rate.

It's just that my point was about humans living indoors. Fuck nature. Humans don't have annual rhythms, or can shrug them off whenever they wish. Humans aboard starships don't have summers, or flowers, or animals other than cats (which also don't do annual rhythms indoors). And there's no pressing need to simulate any of that aboard a starship (other than cats, which humans just plain cannot live without).

A 50-year-long summer would wreak havoc on trying to grow any sort of terrestrial crops in a natural setting. They'd have to be grown in greenhouses or genetically modified to the point where they'd basically be different plants.

But while many alien planets look quite a bit like certain parts of California (see above!), only the sentient bipeds there are supposed to be exactly like humans. The nature around them may have evolved naturally for all we know, adapting to fifty-year summers just fine; only the biped genome is perverted by Ancient meddling.

And can you imagine the psychological consequences for people who are used to more than one or two seasons per year?

...And then move to California? Supposedly not fatal; I think "going postal" was invented in the Midwest.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

I once spent a year in a hot desert like environment, and I missed my winter dearly. I missed snow, and hot chocolate, and other cozy moments. I even missed shoveling. And to the poster a few comments back, yes, many crops depend on winter. The more snow, the deeper ground freeze, the better harvest. Many plants, trees, and animals would die without seasons.

I don't think we know how real humans would cope to extended time on a starship. They must have amazing immunization technology in the 24th century, and light bulbs that can simulate the positive effects of the sun. Living on a starship would be just negative on your body as living underground, and never coming up. Don't astronauts have to go through extensive phsycological tests?

Anyways, the "night shift" would be very conducive to health and welfare. An 8 hour period where the lights a dimmer, and the duty shift is smaller. When the main shift is sleeping. The crew compliment might be numbered with this in mind, like on real life ships.

And I'm sure everyone on board is fully acclimated to a red alert status, where they might have to get up and report to their station. We actually saw this in "Night."

There's another episode where all the main characters get up in the middle of the night and go to the messhall for coffee or something because they can't sleep. This scene introduced Tuvok's dapper pajamas.

 

[Timewalker]

Naah, I live in Canada, too. Or the European equivalent thereto, at any rate.

Huh? Either you live in Canada or you don't. I have no idea what you mean by "the European equivalent thereto". You'd need a country that has 6.5 time zones and every type of ecosystem we have here. Even British Columbia has everything from semi-desert to temperate rainforests to areas where houses can get almost buried in snow during winter. And noticeable parts of the Arctic are literally melting and sloughing off into the Beaufort Sea.

It's just that my point was about humans living indoors. Fuck nature. Humans don't have annual rhythms, or can shrug them off whenever they wish. Humans aboard starships don't have summers, or flowers, or animals other than cats (which also don't do annual rhythms indoors). And there's no pressing need to simulate any of that aboard a starship (other than cats, which humans just plain cannot live without).

Try telling an unspayed cat to ignore her natural rhythms. You have three choices, if you want to keep the cat: Extreme levels of tolerance for days of screaming and howling, a very good set of earplugs, or just get the cat spayed.

I suppose you could find a tomcat and let them do their thing and deal with the kittens that will come along 2 months later. But then you'd just have the same problem all over again after the kittens were weaned 5-6-weeks after birth.

Don't presume to tell me that I can just ignore the natural rhythms of the seasons I grew up with. Maybe some people can, and maybe some people have only ever lived where there's one season and they can't imagine what it's like to have changes. I don't actually spend a lot of time outdoors these days, yet the change of the seasons matter very much. It's doing its best to sleet outside right now (had snow overnight, and what's coming down now is a cold, sloppy mix that's not solid enough to be snow but would be if the temperature dropped a bit or the wind picked up). It's going to make for dangerous driving tonight and I suspect some kids will be kept off the streets for Halloween. But for me, it's a relief to finally get some calendar-appropriate weather. Snow at this time of year is normal.

I've honestly found it mind-croggling to see people on the forum post that they've never seen leaves change in the fall, or that they've never experienced snow.

I think "going postal" was invented in the Midwest.

That was in response to incompetent bureaucracy, inconsiderate kids, inconsiderate people, people who just wanted to be obstructionist because they had the authority to go on their own little power trip.

Not sure what it has to do with moving to California.

 

[jaime]

I understand why they made a "night" shift, even though there is no night or day in space, but as others have said, it's laughable to assume that night shift meant that it was sleep time for all the ships in space or that all species had a 24 hour daily rotation like Earth does.

And wasn't it in acknowledgement of this that they went to stardates, rather than using month /day/year dates?

Ds9 was on Bajoran time. 26 hour days.

 

[jaime]

Huh? Either you live in Canada or you don't. I have no idea what you mean by "the European equivalent thereto". You'd need a country that has 6.5 time zones and every type of ecosystem we have here. Even British Columbia has everything from semi-desert to temperate rainforests to areas where houses can get almost buried in snow during winter. And noticeable parts of the Arctic are literally melting and sloughing off into the Beaufort Sea.


Try telling an unspayed cat to ignore her natural rhythms. You have three choices, if you want to keep the cat: Extreme levels of tolerance for days of screaming and howling, a very good set of earplugs, or just get the cat spayed.

I suppose you could find a tomcat and let them do their thing and deal with the kittens that will come along 2 months later. But then you'd just have the same problem all over again after the kittens were weaned 5-6-weeks after birth.

Don't presume to tell me that I can just ignore the natural rhythms of the seasons I grew up with. Maybe some people can, and maybe some people have only ever lived where there's one season and they can't imagine what it's like to have changes. I don't actually spend a lot of time outdoors these days, yet the change of the seasons matter very much. It's doing its best to sleet outside right now (had snow overnight, and what's coming down now is a cold, sloppy mix that's not solid enough to be snow but would be if the temperature dropped a bit or the wind picked up). It's going to make for dangerous driving tonight and I suspect some kids will be kept off the streets for Halloween. But for me, it's a relief to finally get some calendar-appropriate weather. Snow at this time of year is normal.

I've honestly found it mind-croggling to see people on the forum post that they've never seen leaves change in the fall, or that they've never experienced snow.


That was in response to incompetent bureaucracy, inconsiderate kids, inconsiderate people, people who just wanted to be obstructionist because they had the authority to go on their own little power trip.

Not sure what it has to do with moving to California.

Apart from the time zones, Canada sounds like Britain. Which makes sense.

 

[Prax]

Do you mean climate-wise?