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The New Movies Yea or Nay

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

That's a 'Yay' for me.

And I am a "long-time Trek fan". From the beginning, in fact.

I think we need to do more polls asking if people like or dislike nuTrek.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

Big "Yay!" from me. The only people who might have been longer-term fans than me would have been folks working on TOS who saw episodes before broadcast. ;)
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

It's not a surprise to me that any long-time Trek fan is not in love with the new movies. Did I like them? They're OK. I thought the effects were spectacular and a couple of crew members were awesome in their portrayals. However, as I've seen every episode of every Star Trek series and all of the movies, my perception of ST was already colored by what I already knew about the franchise, which was considerably more than the casual Trek fan or the movie-goer that shows up hand-in-pocket and buys a ticket because he/she doesn't like anything else at the matinee that night.

I think the Abrams and crew approached the subject with a bit of Hubris, and dissuaded all of the detractors as being 'old fuddy-duddies' who are bent by habit and tradition, and can't stand seeing anything new (or anything old that's packaged as new). You can see this underlying tone in many of his interviews so it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone to hear that. That quality hasn't helped to endear him to many long-time fans either. Not only did he come in and re-create a cast that had long-since been ingrained in pop-culture and the psyche of long-time fans, he did so by chucking aside just about everything by creating his own timeline. It's a steamroller approach and dismissive.

In any case, he made a lot of money for the Studio and will probably regard Star Wars fans with a bit of the same disregard that he did with Star Trek fans. It's not that he should, or even can please every fan when you take on such a daunting task, but perhaps doing so should be performed a with a bit more understanding. Who knows if Abrams returns to the series after his venture into a galaxy far, far away. But as he's still producing the next movie, I would speculate that we have many more lens flares in our immediate future...

By "underlying tone of disregard smacking of hubris," do you mean like the oh so subtle way you implied that people who enjoyed the films probably aren't long term, knowledgeable fans of Trek like yourself? Is that the type of tone you're referring to, and presumably providing a helpful example of? If so, I don't recall Abrams using that kind of tone or implying anything of the sort.

I recall him saying that in order for the films to be successful, they'd have to attract a new audience rather than simply relying on existing fans, which is not a dismissal of existing fans but a simple statement of fact. If he was disregarding existing fans he wouldn't have paid homage to TOS in the first place, he would have done something completely different.

Or are you referring to the fact that he didn't consider Star Trek to be his favorite thing in the world when he was growing up (instead being more of a Star Wars fan)? Well, if that's the criteria, you'd have to dismiss a lot of Trek directors and producers. You don't have to be a die hard Trekkie to make a good film, nor does not being a huge fan beforehand mean you're unaware of the franchise and can't be enthusiastic about making a Trek movie. Nor was Abrams alone in working on the film, and other people who were even bigger fans than he was were part of its development. We've had die hard Trek fans and non Trek fans make Trek films and TV episodes, and both have produced winners and losers. It's not a guarantee either way.

You read far too much into my post, and you then pried my mouth open and poured in lots of insinuations and conjecture regarding what I said. Talk about hubris! I don't mind debating anything I state but I'm not going to spend time trying to defend statements that I never made but you oh not so subtly thrust upon me. Oh, and you're going to see me around here fairly often and you'll find that I say what I mean. -I'm never 'subtle 'and I never imply; not even to those who love to read between the lines like you. If you want to write your dissertation regarding your love for all things JJ Abrams, that's fine. But don't use me as a springboard for it. And if you spent more time actually reading (as opposed to reading into) what people say on here(see other threads on this subject), you would actually see that 1) I actually enjoyed the films to a good degree, and 2) I was making a case for those who may feel otherwise.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

One of my bigger complaints was how it deviated from the original show, like the romulans looked nothing like TOS romulans. And spock and uhura?

A lot of what the movies did just didn't sit right with me.
Not sure what you mean. They had arched eyebrows and pointed ears, pretty much the definitive Romulan traits. They looked better than the TNG+ Romulans with their shoulder pads and bowl cut wigs :rommie:

Look at some early TOS episodes like "Charlie X", there you'll see the inspiration for Spock and Uhura's romance.

Yes it different than TOS, but that's the point of an alternate timeline

And "Mantrap" as well.

The thing to remember is that it's not supposed to be exactly the same as TOS. What's the point in rebooting the series if you're just going to make it identical to the previous version?

The Spock/Uhura thing is perfect example. I like it because it's new and different and we haven't seen it before.

And that's coming from a lifelong Trekkie who has been a fan since TOS first ran on NBC back in the sixties.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

One of my bigger complaints was how it deviated from the original show, like the romulans looked nothing like TOS romulans. And spock and uhura?

A lot of what the movies did just didn't sit right with me.
Not sure what you mean. They had arched eyebrows and pointed ears, pretty much the definitive Romulan traits. They looked better than the TNG+ Romulans with their shoulder pads and bowl cut wigs :rommie:

Look at some early TOS episodes like "Charlie X", there you'll see the inspiration for Spock and Uhura's romance.

Yes it different than TOS, but that's the point of an alternate timeline

And "Mantrap" as well.

The thing to remember is that it's not supposed to be exactly the same as TOS. What's the point in rebooting the series if you're just going to make it identical to the previous version?

The Spock/Uhura thing is perfect example. I like it because it's new and different and we haven't seen it before.

And that's coming from a lifelong Trekkie who has been a fan since TOS first ran on NBC back in the sixties.

I agree but more importantly, to me anyway, is that the reboot has struck a cord with my three kids (all in their 20s and 30s now). The reboot isn't so far removed from the Trek I exposed them to (probably more times than they cared for) but it reinvigorated and modernized all the characters to make them fresh again. Fresh enough that all three of them wanted to go to STID with their old man. That's saying something - and I'm enjoying the ride, too.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I agree but more importantly, to me anyway, is that the reboot has struck a cord with my three kids (all in their 20s and 30s now). The reboot isn't so far removed from the Trek I exposed them to (probably more times than they cared for) but it reinvigorated and modernized all the characters to make them fresh again. Fresh enough that all three of them wanted to go to STID with their old man. That's saying something - and I'm enjoying the ride, too.

True. There is something to be said for the invigoration of the franchise by enticing the younger generation. If we are to see anything happen, it's probably got to be at the sacrifice of a few sacred cows and a paradigm shift. That's really cool that your kids would go with you to see the movies. Any mention of Star Trek to my teenage girls would induce this> :rolleyes:
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

It's not a surprise to me that any long-time Trek fan is not in love with the new movies. Did I like them? They're OK. I thought the effects were spectacular and a couple of crew members were awesome in their portrayals. However, as I've seen every episode of every Star Trek series and all of the movies, my perception of ST was already colored by what I already knew about the franchise, which was considerably more than the casual Trek fan or the movie-goer that shows up hand-in-pocket and buys a ticket because he/she doesn't like anything else at the matinee that night.

I think the Abrams and crew approached the subject with a bit of Hubris, and dissuaded all of the detractors as being 'old fuddy-duddies' who are bent by habit and tradition, and can't stand seeing anything new (or anything old that's packaged as new). You can see this underlying tone in many of his interviews so it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone to hear that. That quality hasn't helped to endear him to many long-time fans either. Not only did he come in and re-create a cast that had long-since been ingrained in pop-culture and the psyche of long-time fans, he did so by chucking aside just about everything by creating his own timeline. It's a steamroller approach and dismissive.

In any case, he made a lot of money for the Studio and will probably regard Star Wars fans with a bit of the same disregard that he did with Star Trek fans. It's not that he should, or even can please every fan when you take on such a daunting task, but perhaps doing so should be performed a with a bit more understanding. Who knows if Abrams returns to the series after his venture into a galaxy far, far away. But as he's still producing the next movie, I would speculate that we have many more lens flares in our immediate future...

I'm confused. All the BTS info I have found is Abrams attempting to bridge the gap of a film accessible to those unfamiliar, and fans of original material (TOS, TNG, or whatever else). Not only that, but where he was deficient in his Trek knowledge, at least two of his staff were either more knowledgeable or asking questions of Trek fans.

As for Star Wars, Abrams will not quite have the freedom he did with Trek, and I think he is even more sensitive to fan complaints, being a fan himself. I think there will be a greater awareness on his part, both because of his Trek experience, and his own personal history with the franchise.

If I misunderstood your post, I apologize, but please keep in mind how words like "disregard" and "dismissive" can sound negative in text form.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

It's not a surprise to me that any long-time Trek fan is not in love with the new movies. Did I like them? They're OK. I thought the effects were spectacular and a couple of crew members were awesome in their portrayals. However, as I've seen every episode of every Star Trek series and all of the movies, my perception of ST was already colored by what I already knew about the franchise, which was considerably more than the casual Trek fan or the movie-goer that shows up hand-in-pocket and buys a ticket because he/she doesn't like anything else at the matinee that night.

I think the Abrams and crew approached the subject with a bit of Hubris, and dissuaded all of the detractors as being 'old fuddy-duddies' who are bent by habit and tradition, and can't stand seeing anything new (or anything old that's packaged as new). You can see this underlying tone in many of his interviews so it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone to hear that. That quality hasn't helped to endear him to many long-time fans either. Not only did he come in and re-create a cast that had long-since been ingrained in pop-culture and the psyche of long-time fans, he did so by chucking aside just about everything by creating his own timeline. It's a steamroller approach and dismissive.

In any case, he made a lot of money for the Studio and will probably regard Star Wars fans with a bit of the same disregard that he did with Star Trek fans. It's not that he should, or even can please every fan when you take on such a daunting task, but perhaps doing so should be performed a with a bit more understanding. Who knows if Abrams returns to the series after his venture into a galaxy far, far away. But as he's still producing the next movie, I would speculate that we have many more lens flares in our immediate future...

I'm confused. All the BTS info I have found is Abrams attempting to bridge the gap of a film accessible to those unfamiliar, and fans of original material (TOS, TNG, or whatever else). Not only that, but where he was deficient in his Trek knowledge, at least two of his staff were either more knowledgeable or asking questions of Trek fans.

As for Star Wars, Abrams will not quite have the freedom he did with Trek, and I think he is even more sensitive to fan complaints, being a fan himself. I think there will be a greater awareness on his part, both because of his Trek experience, and his own personal history with the franchise.

If I misunderstood your post, I apologize, but please keep in mind how words like "disregard" and "dismissive" can sound negative in text form.

In retrospect, I will retract those words. I think I have come off in that post as conjecturing regarding Abram's motives. I wanted to see things from the viewpoint of fans who are completely unhappy with the reboots. I saw an interview where he (Abrams) seemed a bit to too glib in response to criticisms of the first movie, which led me to feel that he didn't seem to emphasize a need to respond to critical long-time fans. If he has stated otherwise and others haven't that impression, then I will stand corrected. Please understand that I do not 'hate' the reboots. Far from it. I'm actually fond of many of their features. If my post comes off as anything otherwise, then I didn't do my part to instill it with my enthusiasm for the reboots. I'm actually very pleased that the Star Trek universe is thriving again. It's a fine line to walk and even as a long-time fan, I don't know that I could envision a movie that would satisfy the long-time fans and the modern casual moviegoer. Some people are never happy. He's brave. I'll give him that.

As for Star Wars, you are probably right. He likely has less flexibility, but Star Wars is as much of a fantasy franchise as anything, and in that sense, he's got a lot more freedom. - No TV shows from which to draw 'canon.' ;)
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

It's not a surprise to me that any long-time Trek fan is not in love with the new movies. Did I like them? They're OK. I thought the effects were spectacular and a couple of crew members were awesome in their portrayals. However, as I've seen every episode of every Star Trek series and all of the movies, my perception of ST was already colored by what I already knew about the franchise, which was considerably more than the casual Trek fan or the movie-goer that shows up hand-in-pocket and buys a ticket because he/she doesn't like anything else at the matinee that night.

I think the Abrams and crew approached the subject with a bit of Hubris, and dissuaded all of the detractors as being 'old fuddy-duddies' who are bent by habit and tradition, and can't stand seeing anything new (or anything old that's packaged as new). You can see this underlying tone in many of his interviews so it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone to hear that. That quality hasn't helped to endear him to many long-time fans either. Not only did he come in and re-create a cast that had long-since been ingrained in pop-culture and the psyche of long-time fans, he did so by chucking aside just about everything by creating his own timeline. It's a steamroller approach and dismissive.

In any case, he made a lot of money for the Studio and will probably regard Star Wars fans with a bit of the same disregard that he did with Star Trek fans. It's not that he should, or even can please every fan when you take on such a daunting task, but perhaps doing so should be performed a with a bit more understanding. Who knows if Abrams returns to the series after his venture into a galaxy far, far away. But as he's still producing the next movie, I would speculate that we have many more lens flares in our immediate future...

I'm confused. All the BTS info I have found is Abrams attempting to bridge the gap of a film accessible to those unfamiliar, and fans of original material (TOS, TNG, or whatever else). Not only that, but where he was deficient in his Trek knowledge, at least two of his staff were either more knowledgeable or asking questions of Trek fans.

As for Star Wars, Abrams will not quite have the freedom he did with Trek, and I think he is even more sensitive to fan complaints, being a fan himself. I think there will be a greater awareness on his part, both because of his Trek experience, and his own personal history with the franchise.

If I misunderstood your post, I apologize, but please keep in mind how words like "disregard" and "dismissive" can sound negative in text form.

In retrospect, I will retract those words. I think I have come off in that post as conjecturing regarding Abram's motives. I wanted to see things from the viewpoint of fans who are completely unhappy with the reboots. I saw an interview where he (Abrams) seemed a bit to too glib in response to criticisms of the first movie, which led me to feel that he didn't seem to emphasize a need to respond to critical long-time fans. If he has stated otherwise and others haven't that impression, then I will stand corrected. Please understand that I do not 'hate' the reboots.' I'm actually fond of many of their features. If my post comes off as anything otherwise, then I didn't do my part to instill it with my enthusiasm for the reboots. I'm actually very pleased that the Star Trek universe is thriving again. It's a fine line to walk and even as a long-time fan, I don't know that I could envision a movie that would satisfy the long-time fans and the casual moviegoer. Some people are never happy. He's brave. I'll give him that.

As for Star Wars, you are probably right. He likely has less flexibility, but Star Wars is as much of a fantasy franchise as anything, and in that sense, he's got a lot more freedom. - No TV shows from which to draw 'canon.'

I can understand trying to grasp his motive in terms of creative choices. It is not a job that I envy, because Abrams really has to balance studio expectations, fan expectations, and his own personal ambitions. In all of that, he will be lampooned on the internet no matter what he does.

I did not take your post to be a criticism against the reboots, so much as it made me confused, as I had read and seen different interviews in which he tries to engage the fan base. Obviously, depending on the setting, the reaction will be mixed.

As for Star Wars, it may be a fantasy setting, but the studio heads (Disney and Lucasfilm) are going to be far more scrutinizing of what choices he makes. He may have freedom in a canon sense (and even then, fans are evaluating based upon years and years of books) but creative choices may be more limited.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

It's not a surprise to me that any long-time Trek fan is not in love with the new movies.

This sentiment has been expressed each time a new series or movie has come out, and each time I hear it over the years I shake my head. I was stretched out on the living room floor in my PJs watching TOS when it premiered and I have watched and enjoyed everything that came since (admittedly to different degrees!). I am what I would consider a LONG TIME fan. I would never be arrogant enough to call myself a TRUE fan (to exclude anyone else), but I am indeed a long term fan.

As successive teams fleshed out the stories and Universe of Star Trek, new details and plots filled in gaps or otherwise expanded knowledge and backstories. This conflicted with some people's expectations and personal theories, and even sometimes ignored and contradicted statements that were made in Trek's 'infancy'.

People who do not like the changes will probably find JJTrek unpalatable, as many found ST:TNG (or pick ANY of the other series).

There are things I have not cared for in each Trek incarnation (Spock's Brain. Riker's landing party visiting the Planet of the Mostly Nude Aerobics Instructors. Nelix got a bit on my nerves. Don't care for Spock & Uhura's Alternate Universe romance, especially Uhura's behavior/attitude towards her Captain on a shuttle during a dangerous mission), but I am a viewer willing to accept and appreciate some growth/change in the storytelling that has taken place over 50 years.

I did not want to see Star Trek die after TOS left the airwaves. And I appreciate the visions and work that people have done to keep Trek on the TV, in the theaters and in our hands as novels. And I also enjoy watching what fans have done in creating their own films.

Trek has evolved over time (in different aspects, to different degrees). I believe that it has had to, in order to survive. A lot of long time fans do enjoy the new movies, and that does not surprise me, being someone who appreciates IDIC.
 
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Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

If one was to watch the special features from the first movie, I think most would come away impressed at the effort Abrams made to include long-time fans. It didn't always work out, but they clearly made the effort.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I'm a firm Yay. I may not have always agreed with the execution at times, but I think the ideas and the spirit more than make up for it as a whole, and so I'm content with the idea of a reboot. And, let's face it, the groundwork laid by TOS is so solid in the first place, which is a big reason why these new movies to succeed. At the core of it, the new movies don't try to reinvent the wheel -- they just slapped on some new tires on it with today's traction, and then hooked them up to a brand new engine.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I will go back and expand a bit on why I am not a fan on NuTrek and go into a bit of my history with Trek (which may explain my opinion towards the NuTrek)

I think what kind of got to me was it WAS an alternate universe which meant JJ Abrams could do what ever he wanted with the series and pass it off as Trek (which was great for creative purposes but at the same time caused a few "bumps" in my opinion) This aspect allowed him to change or expand upon things that I personally thought (note this is personal opinion) were perfect the way they were in the TOS episodes. such things as the romance between Spock and Uhura or how he attained the captains chair, or even the fact that Pike was such a big character in the movies vs the show where he appeared twice. Then there are two sides of a coin one side has actors perfectly portraying the characters, such as the actor who played Bones and the actor who played Chekov. They perfectly captured the essence of the original characters. On the other hand you have the actress who played Uhura and (again in my opinion) the actor who played Kirk. On one hand they are both great actors who brought a fresh face to Trek, but on the other hand I don't see the original characters in them as much as I do in the other characters.

As for a little back story as to maybe why I have this opinion...I did not grow up watching Star Trek, I didn't watch the episodes as they aired or have a childhood revolving around Star Trek in any way. I became a Trek fan very recently, though I dove in head first and have become full on obsessed with the franchise (I collect the comics, toys, costumes, dress up at conventions etc.) I started watching about a year ago in honor of my deceased father who was a huge Trek fan, but since then I have seen every episode, movie, and documentary revolving around Star Trek, and therein may lie why I'm so particular, I'm not viewing it as "a fresh new start" or "keeping the torch burning" because as a young Trek fan (21) I think they are perfect how they were, it's what attracted me to them, I don't feel that connection or passion for the new movies that I feel for the show. I do like that it brought Trek back into the light and helped our community to gain some more followers, but I also see those "new fans" going back to watch the TV series and coming out disappointed or unimpressed with the show THE THING THAT THE MOVIE CAME FROM!

I just feel less than happy with the movies and I honestly can't articulate why I feel this way. The acting was great (for the most part) the effects were phenomenal and the story was good, I just can't get into them and I hate that because I want to like them.
 
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Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I have known many younger people who have gone back and watched anywhere between one and all of the Trek series after first being exposed to Trek via JJ. Trek is not on tv here, you have to go look for it. Those are people I've personally known, I think a passing glance at tumblr shows you just how big a jump into Trek there's been with people who went WOW at NuTrek. Pretty impressive.

NuTrek has brought new people to the series. IF they don't like it after watching NuTrek first there's no reason to believe they would have liked it at all.

Oh and NuPike is fantastic! Why would you want to only see him in that chair all tortured? It's great to see the man spoken so highly of in TOS.

Trek has evolved over time

Yep. Maybe we will all reach our point where we go "not my Trek!" and rush to the internet to complain, but so far I can't see this happening to me. I like the universe, and I like stories in that universe. Simple.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I think what kind of got to me was it WAS an alternate universe which meant JJ Abrams could do what ever he wanted with the series and pass it off as Trek (which was great for creative purposes but at the same time caused a few "bumps" in my opinion)
It is Trek, not just passing as Trek.

This aspect allowed him to change or expand upon things that I personally thought (note this is personal opinion) were perfect the way they were in the TOS episodes. such things as the romance between Spock and Uhora
"Uhura". :)

As mentioned it builds off something presented in TOS. I like it when that happens. Something new and unexpected from something old.

or how he attained the captains chair

We never knew how Kirk gained the Captain's chair in TOS. Kirk was captain from the getg o in TOS and never mentioned how he got there. At best we know he was young

or even the fact that Pike was such a big character in the movies vs the show where he appeared twice.

Not seeing a problem with this. In TOS Kirk often ran to old friends and mentors. (guest stars) Pike as an older mentor figure for Kirk (and Spock) makes a certain amount of sense given his age and the time the film is set. Plus in the development of the show Pike was Kirk. So, meta?

Then there are two sides of a coin one side has actors perfectly portraying the characters, such as the actor who played Bones and the actor who played Chekov. They perfectly captured the essence of the original characters. On the other hand you have the actress who played Uhora and (again in my opinion) the actor who played Kirk. On one hand they are both great actors who brought a fresh face to Trek, but on the other hand I don't see the original characters in them as much as I do in the other characters.
Sadlly with Uhura, there's not much to work with in TOS. No accent or mannerisms, just a catch phrase or two. So essentially she was blank canvas. Especially with her going from secondary to lead.

Kirk is a bit tougher. Pine manages to put in some Kirk mannerism without drifting into a Shatner impersonation. (a bad idea) Watch for them, they're there. Often it's body language.
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I love the end of XI when he sits down in the captain's chair, crosses his legs.. every moment of it was pure Kirk. And I do think the ease with which it could have turned into a Shatner impersonation, given the larger than life theatrical qualities of the man and the long history of people taking the piss of said qualities.. well I suspect they were very careful this wasn't the case. He's younger, he's greener, he's still Kirk. But no, he isn't the SHAT!
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I love the end of XI when he sits down in the captain's chair, crosses his legs.. every moment of it was pure Kirk. And I do think the ease with which it could have turned into a Shatner impersonation, given the larger than life theatrical qualities of the man and the long history of people taking the piss of said qualities.. well I suspect they were very careful this wasn't the case. He's younger, he's greener, he's still Kirk. But no, he isn't the SHAT!
Exactly the scene I was thinking of. :techman:
 
Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I love the end of XI when he sits down in the captain's chair, crosses his legs.. every moment of it was pure Kirk. And I do think the ease with which it could have turned into a Shatner impersonation, given the larger than life theatrical qualities of the man and the long history of people taking the piss of said qualities.. well I suspect they were very careful this wasn't the case. He's younger, he's greener, he's still Kirk. But no, he isn't the SHAT!
I do love that his body language did mirror that of Shatner. I did appreciate that.
 
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