The Neutral Zone (Episode)

[shivkala]

A minor point I want to kind of say is just generally how "time" tends to work in trek and, well, all TV where it seems like more time passes than should have. Data is told there's several hours before Picard is expected back so he decides to take Worf and explore the derelict cryo-stasis satellite that has some how drifted from Earth to this location in 300 years. He and Worf appear to leave immediately but they don't get very far in exploring the capsule before he's told to beam back because Picard is expected soon.

Another example that springs to mind is in "...Farpoint," when Riker comes aboard and is shown the visual record of the preceding events. As Picard goes to the Battle Bridge Ready Room, Data tells him that the saucer section will arrive at Deneb IV in 51 minutes. Picard replies, "Inform them we'll connect as soon as they arrive, and send the commander to me when he's finished."

Riker spends a few more moments watching the sensor logs, comments, "He calls that a 'little adventure'?", and goes to the Ready Room. He and Picard have a brief exchange before the saucer arrives and Riker is ordered to perform a manual docking.

To be fair, that was pretty much the Spaceballs scene of him watching the episode and it was close to the 30 minute mark at that point, so it's not that much of a stretch. Plus, it's Riker, he totally rewound on things like the women in skants and any time Tasha was seen walking away from the camera.

Seriously though, this scene brings up another question (granted, not necessarily "Neutral Zone" related), but how much of the ship's activity is recorded? Is it a given that as soon as you step on the bridge, you're being recorded?

From a slightly different perspective, I'd think Ralph would adapt very quickly to 24th century life. With his intelligence and perceptiveness, he'd have a handle very quickly on how the 24th century "works", and start carving his path from there. Perhaps not necessarily within the Federation, though, if he would find that he'd have more opportunities within another political entity.

He would, until he got so busy he forgot to get a cure for his crippling boneitis.

But I'm sure some fan fiction or novelizations (I don't read those) have been written around that theme.

Sure enough, they're in Beta Canon:
Ralph Offenhouse
Clare Raymond
L.Q. "Sonny" Clemonds

Spoiler: Pocket Books Novelizations

While they all got a little bit of their 24th century life told, all three appeared in the trilogy The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonian Singh in the 20th Century. I quite like how it's shown that Sonny sang at Vic's casino (the real one that holosuite program is based on) and serenaded the crowd in 1993 with his song, "Don't send me no email unless you're a female."

But fort some it's so much fuuuuuuuuuuun to disdain!

I'm watching the series from the start and got up to "The Battle" last night. A good chunk of the first episodes is dedicated to the crew's disdain over Earth's past, specifically the 20th century. "Encounter at Far Point" makes this a plot point, "The Last Outpost" has them disdaining the Ferengi for being capitalists post 21st century (referring to them as "Yankee Traders"), "Lonely Among Us" has Riker baffled that two groups could hate each other so much (with Picard giving this gem in return, "Well, yes, but these life forms feel such passionate hatred over differences in customs, God concepts, and even strangely enough, economic systems..."), and "Justice" has them explaining our past to the Edo as basically, "Yeah, we were savages, but we're enlightened now."). And that's just some of the good ol' disdaining Rodenberry packed into season 1 with his view of how humanity would be evolved by the 24th Century.

Thankfully, Trek would go on to show us how these things still existed, but were rarer, making them flawed, but not insufferable as they were early on in TNG.

Let's not forget that it was Season 1 either and Season 1 Picard spend most of his time annoyed at everyone and everything.

Plus it was when they really tried very hard, and for the most part failed very hard, at portraying the crew as "perfect humans" and so they had to state that those 20th century humans were horrible and barbaric and, at best, to be pitied, so that the "evolved" 24th century folk (who jump around like angry howler monkies if their ex-girlfriend gets married aand frequently can't bare the mere presence of one another) will look good in comparison.

On the less cynical level, it is really not Captain Picard's job to entertain or care for those 20th century humans, or to help them adjust. That falls square into Troi's duties, so he's right in handing them off to her.

It's amazing knowing that Gene wanted them to be free of internal-conflict, and yet, that's all I can see. They're so stiff and Picard comes off as ready to snap at someone at any second. I know I'd be on edge around him and would certainly talk behind his back.

Hell, as I said, I'm up to "The Battle" and it seems Beverly's main function on the show up until this point is to be in conflict with Picard. The sexual tension from "The Naked Now" aside, she's always arguing with him. In "Where No One Has Gone Before" it was the usual "the patient isn't healthy enough to do what you want them to do, Captain" conflict, in "Lonely Among Us" it was fomenting mutiny (arguably, rightly so, but still), in "Justice" it was about her son (which was a constant source of conflict between the two up until this point), but this time it was the reasonable position of not wanting the Captain to allow him to die, and in "The Battle" it's the typical "I'm the doctor, I outrank you, get your ass to sickbay" conflict (She's not shy in early season 1 of pointing out she's the only one who can order the Captain to do anything).

In "Justice" Riker is clearly jealous over the male Edo's interest in Troi. He doesn't really act on it, but it's clearly there, so, again, tell me there's no internal conflict.

I feel like with some minor changes Conspiracy, The Neutral Zone and a third episode as the season 2 premiere having the Enterprise and Romulans teaming up to fight the outpost attackers would have made a cool trilogy.
The Tomed Incident and aftermath is interesting when what was happening in Angel One is considered. I'm not worried about rationalisations but more why writers seem to forget stuff that happened a few episodes ago. Just seems odd.
Ralph just wanders onto the bridge. Sure, why not.

Agreed, sadly it couldn't have happened due to behind the scenes stuff going on. I think the failure to get the Ferengi to be TNG's Klingons really hampered them. "Conspiracy" was a false start, as they seemingly were going to tie it into everything, but upon creating the Borg, decided to go in a different direction.

 

[Qonundrum]

To be fair, that was pretty much the Spaceballs scene of him watching the episode and it was close to the 30 minute mark at that point, so it's not that much of a stretch. Plus, it's Riker, he totally rewound on things like the women in skants and any time Tasha was seen walking away from the camera.

Seriously though, this scene brings up another question (granted, not necessarily "Neutral Zone" related), but how much of the ship's activity is recorded? Is it a given that as soon as you step on the bridge, you're being recorded?

He would, until he got so busy he forgot to get a cure for his crippling boneitis.

Sure enough, they're in Beta Canon:
Ralph Offenhouse
Clare Raymond
L.Q. "Sonny" Clemonds

Spoiler: Pocket Books Novelizations

While they all got a little bit of their 24th century life told, all three appeared in the trilogy The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonian Singh in the 20th Century. I quite like how it's shown that Sonny sang at Vic's casino (the real one that holosuite program is based on) and serenaded the crowd in 1993 with his song, "Don't send me no email unless you're a female."

Thanks much!

I'm watching the series from the start and got up to "The Battle" last night. A good chunk of the first episodes is dedicated to the crew's disdain over Earth's past, specifically the 20th century. "Encounter at Far Point" makes this a plot point, "The Last Outpost" has them disdaining the Ferengi for being capitalists post 21st century (referring to them as "Yankee Traders"), "Lonely Among Us" has Riker baffled that two groups could hate each other so much (with Picard giving this gem in return, "Well, yes, but these life forms feel such passionate hatred over differences in customs, God concepts, and even strangely enough, economic systems..."), and "Justice" has them explaining our past to the Edo as basically, "Yeah, we were savages, but we're enlightened now."). And that's just some of the good ol' disdaining Rodenberry packed into season 1 with his view of how humanity would be evolved by the 24th Century.

Most of us are disgruntled with humanity's distant past. I'd also guess that humanity might devolve if it hadn't looked back and be disgusted by everything that had gone on for tens of thousands of years.

Okay, "Yankee Trader" is a bit heavyhanded - meaning, of course, they could have been more subtle but the term is still not ineffective. Though at the time of this writing even Wikipedia's entry is less biased than TNG's usage was.

Yankee traders is a term used historically to refer to American merchants and drug smugglers, particularly around the turn of the 19th century.[1] Many of the Yankee traders came from Boston or other New England ports — hence the appellation "Yankee".[1] They were reputed to be particularly shrewd and independent.[2]

But it's also more accessible (Lowest Common Denominator fluff compared to other eras and TNG wasn't a history lesson show, it takes a claim we all know how nasty the past was.)

Thankfully, Trek would go on to show us how these things still existed, but were rarer, making them flawed, but not insufferable as they were early on in TNG.

It's amazing knowing that Gene wanted them to be free of internal-conflict, and yet, that's all I can see. They're so stiff and Picard comes off as ready to snap at someone at any second. I know I'd be on edge around him and would certainly talk behind his back.

More eggshells there than in a chicken farm. Gene's idealism is charming but even 400 years from now, humans aren't going to be like Vulcans no matter what.

Hell, as I said, I'm up to "The Battle" and it seems Beverly's main function on the show up until this point is to be in conflict with Picard. The sexual tension from "The Naked Now" aside, she's always arguing with him.

Even in season 1, nobody liked Gene's edict because they couldn't do external conflict (aka "monster of the week") every second of every episode. It's simply impossible for television shows to do. Or books. Or real life. TOS did its loose attempt a lot better too. I think the writers were just trying to tread the schizoid environment as much as they could.

In "Where No One Has Gone Before" it was the usual "the patient isn't healthy enough to do what you want them to do, Captain" conflict, in "Lonely Among Us" it was fomenting mutiny (arguably, rightly so, but still), in "Justice" it was about her son (which was a constant source of conflict between the two up until this point), but this time it was the reasonable position of not wanting the Captain to allow him to die, and in "The Battle" it's the typical "I'm the doctor, I outrank you, get your ass to sickbay" conflict (She's not shy in early season 1 of pointing out she's the only one who can order the Captain to do anything).

In "Justice" Riker is clearly jealous over the male Edo's interest in Troi. He doesn't really act on it, but it's clearly there, so, again, tell me there's no internal conflict.

Pretty much.

Agreed, sadly it couldn't have happened due to behind the scenes stuff going on. I think the failure to get the Ferengi to be TNG's Klingons really hampered them. "Conspiracy" was a false start, as they seemingly were going to tie it into everything, but upon creating the Borg, decided to go in a different direction.

The Ferengi were often so poorly handled - not necessarily a bad idea, but bad execution in the scripts - especially TNG's where they're nothing more than cardboard cutout mustache twirlers, moohahahaha. Though Ethan Philips, as with Armin Shimmerman, knew how to make them work - Armin more so, especially as DS9 allowed more actor input and less of Gene's over-tight demands. The costuming looked great but the scripts did not suit the concept and DS9, despite doing much to add dimension (thank you Armin and "Move Along Home" for starting this trend!!), still often had them reduced as comedy fodder and often it didn't work - when it did (e.g. "Little Green Men") it was largely great.

 

[daveyjones]

If Riker watched the recording in real time, this would have taked up a good piece of the 51 minutes.

it's almost as if it's a television show edited for optimal narrative flow and not actually real life.

 

[Tenacity]

"Lonely Among Us" has Riker baffled that two groups could hate each other so much

Too bad in the same episode Riker didn't ask Worf about his feelings about the Romulans.

"Yeah, we were savages, but we're enlightened now."

One of my top ten favorite scenes in all of Star Trek, is when Lily Sloane points out to Picard that his artfully crafted veneer of civilized enlightenness is tissue thin.

I think the failure to get the Ferengi to be TNG's Klingons really hampered them.

If they wanted the Ferengi to be credible main villians, in the episode where they first appeared, the Ferengi should have won in the end, through intelligence and guile.

And the result would have obviously cost Picard and company. The Ferengi should have come out on top in a few of their encounters with Picard. Otherwise why take them seriously?

(lose the jerky motions too)

 

[Trekker4747]

In the first episode the "terrifying" Ferengi appeared they cringed and howled in agony over thunder and lightning.

 

[Timo]

...Goes well with the sensitive ears!

And it's fun to see an adversary that grows in strength for a rare once. Generally, foes simply devolve.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trekker4747]

Its just hard to establish them as a powerful enemy, worse than Klingons, when on our first introduction they react to thunder the same way your dog reacts to the vacuum cleaner.

 

[Makarov]

I think Crusher shouldn't have revived them but maybe have a medical ship dispatched to take care of it.

Ralph was an interesting guy, didnt care much for the other two. But I dont blame Picard for being annoyed

 

[Timo]

I think Crusher shouldn't have revived them but maybe have a medical ship dispatched to take care of it.

...They were within shuttlecraft range of a starbase, for crying out loud!

I can understand Data feeling curious about this mystery object, and I can understand him being allowed to conduct the initial survey. And I do get that Riker was in a hurry immediately afterwards, perhaps slightly unexpectedly so even. But possibly Riker could have called the starbase during Data's very personal field trip, arranging for a mop-up mission.

But the thing is, Riker deemed the satellite a waste of time originally. No doubt this meant he also deemed it unworthy of the attention of the starbase. There was no time window for him to alter his opinion: he was not aware that Data was working behind his back and ordering the resurrection of the frozen corpses. It would not have occurred for him to "rescue" those dead people; letting Data bring them aboard like a crate of ruined beer bottles from a historically insignificant shipwreck was his default way of dealing with the android's annoying interest in the worthless cadavers.

That Data then abused Crusher's resources for the resurrection appeared rather trivial, too. Having a starbase do that, or not do that, would have been equally trivial in terms of resources expenditure and not worth bothering them. It's just that Data (intentionally or accidentally) misled Crusher into thinking that the resurrecting was a required procedure commanded from on high. And it was not Crusher's place to ask questions, especially in this serious and secretive situation they were in the middle of.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tenacity]

They were within shuttlecraft range of a starbase, for crying out loud!

But the Enterprise-D is a "flying starbase."

 

[ThankQ]

And, come on, First Season Riker can't figure out what a "low-mileage pit woofie" is?

Paging @cooleddie74 We have a pit woofie sighting.

Let's help 'em build a memory.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Okie's right. Let's get 'em in here.

 

[Trekker4747]

I really wonder if he was successful in getting his music career going again, I'd think the people in 24c could really use some nice, classic, country music.

"Well in the novel..." comment coming in 5... 4... 3... 2...

 

[diankra]

From a slightly different perspective, I'd think Ralph would adapt very quickly to 24th century life. With his intelligence and perceptiveness, he'd have a handle very quickly on how the 24th century "works", and start carving his path from there. Perhaps not necessarily within the Federation, though, if he would find that he'd have more opportunities within another political entity. I can also see Clare adapt to her new circumstances in time. Sonny on the other hand, while sympathetic, seems to think he can just repeat his old tricks and become a success this time around. Moreover he has a substance addiction to deal with and possibly more than one- he had both advanced emphysema and extensive liver damage. Curious as to how he'd deal with those.

But I'm sure some fan fiction or novelizations (I don't read those) have been written around that theme.



Although he is behaving quite condescendingly towards Picard, I think he never meant that. From the context, I take the 'you's' in that quote to be meant in the general, abstract sense.

One of the TNG novels has Offenhouse reappear as the Federation diplomat dealing with the Ferengi, as he understands what motivates them.

 

[Ghrakh]

DS9 is unimaginative soap-opera garbage and the show's fanboys are insecure.

 

[Tenacity]

soap-opera

Which is a plus for those of us who love soap opera for the art form that it is.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

DS9 is unimaginative soap-opera garbage and the show's fanboys are insecure.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

DS9 is unimaginative soap-opera garbage and the show's fanboys are insecure.

And you’re about an inch from a trolling warning.

 

[ThankQ]

 

[johnnybear]

And with Clare Raymond, it's not everyone who has six Doctor Who's as her descendants is it!!!
JB