• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Nature of the Universe, Time Travel and More...

Can I go back to 1997 and buy Apple stock?
This is the Time Traveler's Paradox. If I go back in time and kill my poor self by giving me a wealth of knowledge about the future, would I still exist? I wouldn't be poor therefore, I wouldn't go back in time to tip myself off about Apple Inc. On the other hand, maybe I wouldn't believe that Apple would become the largest seller of PCs in the world and I'd take the tip and chuck it.

I mean, if some old fat guy who looks kinda like you shows up and says, "I'm you 28 years from now, and I traveled back in time to help us become rich," would you believe him?
6a00e54ee7b642883302c8d3d47b98200c-700wi


-Will
 
There might exist almost countless timelines. In that case, one is not special. One cannot enter the same river twice - just as Heraclitus stated. Even if one knows the winning lottery numbers - or whatever - for a given instance of a timeline, they will likely not apply to most other timelines. When everything happens and one realises individuality is an illusion, time travel - other than the parochial kind we all perceive - becomes pointless.
 
time travel - other than the parochial kind we all perceive - becomes pointless.
Not necessarily pointless. The possibility of time travel may be the secret to faster than light travel that allows us to reach out across the galaxy and colonize beyond our star neighborhood.

Maybe moving backwards or forwards in time Is less important than its suspension. Instantaneous travel to anywhere. Considering that we are limited to exploring our universe at only light speed, nothing we see out there is actually where it is now. But, stop time, and we have the opportunity to see a picture of our universe accurately in a single moment.

Forget about moving forward or backward in time, what would the energy expenditure be in just stopping time? My guess, all of it.

-Will
 
Last edited:
These are all new concepts for me.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/matt...-are-exactly-two-types-of-particles-20250623/

I've heard of bosons and fermions, of course, but never any kind of explanation. The history of their discovery is also intriguing.

The_Standard_Model-crMarkBelan-Mobilev2-1.svg

The unique nature of electrons as fermions, as opposed to the boson photon, deserves further investigation. Obviously there is a relationship between the two particle kingdoms. Photons have an electromagnetic charge that can induce electron movement, but electrons don't seem to move freely. They repel each other, so they naturally disperse, unless confined to a conductor or some sort of static charge holder, like a capacitor.



It sound like electrons have a vector property (magnitude and direction) that photons don't have.

-Will
 
A couple of papers I hope can be of use:
CIC nanoGUNE has "Breaking Ohm's Law" at phys.org today-- and there is an article called
"Strong magnetic fields flip angular momentum dynamics in magnetovortical matter."

This all likely has to do with tiny electronics instead of being applicable to forms of transportation where we macroscopic creatures live...still-if there's a chance...

A sad story about a would be chrononaut
 
Last edited:
Assistant Professor Kazuya Mameda of Tokyo University of Science, Japan, in collaboration with Professor Kenji Fukushima of School of Science, The University of Tokyo and Dr. Koichi Hattori of Zhejiang University, found that under strong magnetic fields, the orbital motion of magnetovortical matter becomes more significant than spin effects, leading to reversing the overall direction of angular momentum.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2025-07-strong-magnetic-fields-flip-angular.amp
I think I read an article that said quantum particle spin effect was more of a convention of thinking than actual directional spin imparted upon the particles. Not to say they don't spin, but there was a logical arguement that suggested they don't spin with symmetry and probably can't spin at all.

However, orbital angular momentum would be quite useful to control.

-Will
 
https://www.elcabildo.org/en/nasa-a...t-the-outer-limits-of-our-solar-system-50137/
The heliosphere is sort of a bubble around our entire solar system. It is, according to the above article, where the sun's influence pushed against the free particles of outer-space. The edge of this bubble is called the 'heliopause', and it acts as sort of a Van Allen's Belt around the farthest edges of the solar system.
2g.Heliosphere_Image_main_BoundariesLg-jpg.webp

The Sun sends out a constant flow of charged particles called the solar wind, which ultimately travels past all the planets to some three times the distance to Pluto before being impeded by the interstellar medium. This forms a giant bubble around the Sun and its planets, known as the heliosphere.
https://science.nasa.gov/heliophysics/focus-areas/heliosphere/#:~:text=The Sun sends out a,planets, known as the heliosphere.
That's a big bubble. I wonder if other stars' heliospheres are viewable from Earth.

My guess is all stars put out a solar wind, so they all create a heliosphere, or maybe orbiting planted are essential for creating the discrete barrier of the heliopause.

What it discovered there has left scientists astounded—a “wall of fire” where temperatures soar to an unimaginable 54,000 degrees Fahrenheit
Voyager’s instruments detected a surprising rise in both temperature and particle density at this location, a phenomenon scientists now call the “wall of fire.”
Thankfully, this fiery zone doesn’t harm Voyager; it’s so sparse that the probe glides through unharmed.
So, the temperature quoted here is really the energy of each free flying particle?! This is not to say that space around these energetic particles is affected?! Is this a statistical average of the heat energy in a square centimeter of sensor surface area?
NASA engineers explain that the intense temperature readings don’t mean the probe is facing a flame that could burn metal—rather, the “heat” comes from the kinetic energy of particles moving at nearly the speed of light. The gas in this region is so thin that particles rarely collide, allowing Voyager 1 to slip through like a cosmic explorer without a scratch.
"...like a cosmic explorer..." Voyager doesn't slip through LIKE a cosmic explorer. It IS a cosmic explorer. But, this almost answers my question. The greater density (I assume) of the space gasses inside the heliosphere should mean higher temperatures, even if they are not traveling as close to the speed of light. Shouldn't their greater concentration result in higher rates of collision, so more heat?

-Will
 
That's a big bubble. I wonder if other stars' heliospheres are viewable from Earth.
We can't see our own HelioSphere's, the particle density isn't high enough to be observable on the visible spectrum.
And since we're inside, I doubt we'd ever see it.
I don't think we've seen the HelioSphere's of other Star Systems either, the plasma isn't dense enough to be visible.

My guess is all stars put out a solar wind, so they all create a heliosphere, or maybe orbiting planted are essential for creating the discrete barrier of the heliopause.
As long as you're a Star, you should be putting out a HelioSphere along the path that you travel.

So, the temperature quoted here is really the energy of each free flying particle?! This is not to say that space around these energetic particles is affected?! Is this a statistical average of the heat energy in a square centimeter of sensor surface area?
Voyager flew past the "Wall of Fire", it didn't spend that much time in it, so no real damage.

"...like a cosmic explorer..." Voyager doesn't slip through LIKE a cosmic explorer. It IS a cosmic explorer. But, this almost answers my question. The greater density (I assume) of the space gasses inside the heliosphere should mean higher temperatures, even if they are not traveling as close to the speed of light. Shouldn't their greater concentration result in higher rates of collision, so more heat?

-Will
HelioPause OutSide Structures:
Outside the heliosphere, there is a forty-fold increase in plasma density.[47] There is also a radical reduction in the detection of certain types of particles from the Sun, and a large increase in galactic cosmic rays.[48]

The flow of the interstellar medium (ISM) into the heliosphere has been measured by at least 11 different spacecraft as of 2013.[49] By 2013, it was suspected that the direction of the flow had changed over time.[49] The flow, coming from Earth's perspective from the constellation Scorpius, has probably changed direction by several degrees since the 1970s
I think it's just different concentrations of varous particles as to what is in the space inside the HelioSphere compared to the what's right outside and inside the InterStellar Medium that we constantly approach.
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
I knew it! AI is bad for society, we need MASSIVE restrictiosn on it's usage.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
We've needed Scientists & Engineers to start miniaturizing these Particle Accelerators.
A good first step.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Easy to harvest Hydrogen could be a game changer IMO.
 
I knew it! AI is bad for society, we need MASSIVE restrictiosn on it's usage.
Plato argued the same thing.
(https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439)
"Now the king of all Egypt at that time was the god Thamus, who lived in the great city of the upper region, which the Greeks call the Egyptian Thebes, and they call the god himself Ammon. To him came Theuth to show his inventions, saying that they ought to be imparted to the other Egyptians. But Thamus asked what use there was in each, and as Theuth enumerated their uses, expressed praise or blame, according as he approved [274e] or disapproved...
..."The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, [274e] “This invention, O king,” said Theuth, “will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered.” But Thamus replied, “Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; [275a] and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess.

"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem [275b] to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

I believe the results of this technology will be the widening of the cognitive gap between "normal IQ" populations and genius IQ populations. It may cause a statistical dumbing of the overall population, but truly "gifted" thinkers will exercise their brains regardless of the environment. The creative will insist upon being the creators, the inspired and able mind will produce independent of an available crutch. There is no threat greater to the establishment than the true intellectual, and that will only ever change when the establishment stops feeling threatened by change (read, never).

-Will
 
Last edited:
I believe the results of this technology will be the widening of the cognitive gap between "normal IQ" populations and genius IQ populations. It may cause a statistical dumbing of the overall population, but truly "gifted" thinkers will exercise their brains regardless of the environment. The creative will insist upon being the creators, the inspired and able mind will produce independent of an available crutch. There is no threat greater to the establishment than the true intellectual, and that will only ever change when the establishment stops feeling threatened by change (read, never).
But what about the "Below Average IQ" populations?
This isn't going to help them, in fact it's going to hurt them.
 
But what about the "Below Average IQ" populations?
This isn't going to help them, in fact it's going to hurt them.
Is it? Those below-average actually may benefit from AI, the way a wheel chair will help a person with a physical handicap, but cause atrophy in a normally capable walking person. Losing something by relying on a crutch is not the same as doing more by having that crutch.

This question touches upon the line between benefits for individuals and those for society as a whole. Each and every individual may actually be able to accomplish more through AI, but the overall benefits to society may see diminishing returns. AI may enhance what an individual can accomplish while it undermines the ability of the individual, but I suspect the real danger is in how AI will affect what the individual even attempts to accomplish.

-Will
 
Is it? Those below-average actually may benefit from AI, the way a wheel chair will help a person with a physical handicap, but cause atrophy in a normally capable walking person. Losing something by relying on a crutch is not the same as doing more by having that crutch.

This question touches upon the line between benefits for individuals and those for society as a whole. Each and every individual may actually be able to accomplish more through AI, but the overall benefits to society may see diminishing returns. AI may enhance what an individual can accomplish while it undermines the ability of the individual, but I suspect the real danger is in how AI will affect what the individual even attempts to accomplish.

-Will
But upper management is looking to replace the people, not even give them a crutch to help them.
 
I don't know what that means.
The people who are doing the hiring at the jobs with AI.
Their end goal is to get rid of hiring humans and replace as many humans as possible with AI.
Basically, Obsoleting any Flesh & Blood Human.

Their goal isn't to give them a tool to help the less intelligent workers, it's to put them out of a job completely.
 
Nope. There goal is to make money without the hassle of a human workforce. No workers' comp claims, no insurance or union hassles, steady, regular, predictable production.

But, who will you sell your product or services to, if there is no human workforce? It seems short sighted to shed large industries of their workforce. Suddenly, only the government is your customer, and they have the power and motivation to take it over if they become the only customer with the economy to support you. What a shame to go through all that effort to automate and computerize your workforce, then have the government take it over because you have effectively put too much strain on the unemployment numbers, lowered the GDP, and forced the government to step in and try to support their unemployed population.

It's fine for a few small companies, I would do it, but when manufacturing can happen without the workforce expense, there will be a large reduction in overall income as the world has less and less to trade for your services. Then, R&D suffers, as well as scientific research due to lack of motivation and resources. It's all spent on social services.

-Will
 
Nope. There goal is to make money without the hassle of a human workforce. No workers' comp claims, no insurance or union hassles, steady, regular, predictable production.
Yeah, we both agree on that's their "End Goal".

But, who will you sell your product or services to, if there is no human workforce?
That's the problem.

It seems short sighted to shed large industries of their workforce.
Nobody claimed they had any long term vision, most of their visions are short term and don't really go beyond the current quarterly reports.

Suddenly, only the government is your customer, and they have the power and motivation to take it over if they become the only customer with the economy to support you. What a shame to go through all that effort to automate and computerize your workforce, then have the government take it over because you have effectively put too much strain on the unemployment numbers, lowered the GDP, and forced the government to step in and try to support their unemployed population.

It's fine for a few small companies, I would do it, but when manufacturing can happen without the workforce expense, there will be a large reduction in overall income as the world has less and less to trade for your services. Then, R&D suffers, as well as scientific research due to lack of motivation and resources. It's all spent on social services.

-Will
Yeah, that's why AI is the greatest threat to 'Job Security' in the modern era.
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Interesting…
 
Time travel

I just had this article pop up on my Google front page. https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...s-paradox-free-time-travel-is-possible-study/

I followed the included link to the publication.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/aba4bc

Here are a couple of the main points:
  • “we extend the characterisation of deterministic processes to an arbitrary number of regions. We provide some simple interpretation of the characterisation: when fixing the state on the future of all but two regions, the remaining two must be causally ordered, with only one directional signalling possible.” -Germain Tobar and Fabio Costa (the paper's authors).
  • "Our results show that CTCs (Closed Time-like Curves) are not only compatible with determinism and with the local ‘free choice’ of operations, but also with a rich and diverse range of scenarios and dynamical processes." {https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/aba4bc}

The paper suggests that, In their example of going back in time to try and prevent patient zero of the Covid-19 pandemic, you wouldn't be able to. Maybe you stop patient 0[SUB]1[/SUB], but then, as a result, you, or some other person becomes 0[SUB]n[/SUB]. The local closed time-like curve corrects itself, allowing free choice without affecting the future consequences.

However, that doesn't answer the Grandfather Paradox, where there were no alternate paths to your conception. The exception might be to say, you couldn't execute the plan. You'd get waylaid on your way to the location/time, your weapon misfires, you kill the wrong guy, something would happen every time you made the attempt.

Now, there is a parallel article {https://physicsworld.com/a/simulations-of-time-travel-send-quantum-metrology-back-to-the-future/#:~:text=While actual backward time travel,sent back to the beginning.} that describes a quantum entanglement experiment that sent information backwards into the past and it apparently didn't effect the future/present.

"If ... the experimentalist teleports the optimal input state back in time via entanglement manipulation, the trio show that this could produce novel operational advantages. In their proposal, an experimentalist prepares a pair of maximally entangled quantum bits, or qubits, called A and C, plus an additional qubit as the probe. The goal is to measure the strength of an unknown interaction using the probe. Initially, the experimentalist is unaware of the optimal input state for A. At the first step, the probe and qubit A interact. The information about the unknown parameter of the interaction is encoded in the probe’s state. At an intermediate step, however, the experimentalist measures the state of qubit A. This measurement reveals information about the as-yet-unknown optimal state.
"Next, the experimentalist uses this information to prepare an auxiliary qubit D in this optimal state. Then, they measure the joint state of the qubits C and D. If this joint state does not match the initial joint state of A and C, the measurement is discarded from the analysis. This effectively picks out instances where optimally prepared state D teleports into the original state of qubit A. The teleportation implies that when the experimentalist measures the probe, they record optimal information gain even though they did not, initially, prepare the probe in the optimal state."

But, this sounds like interacting with the past IS affecting the future.

In the case of the Covid-19 example, how would you know you've changed anything?

There are three possible outcomes to interacting profoundly with the past and affecting the future.

1. You travel back to the past, change the future, return and notice things have changed.
2. You travel back to the past, change the future, return and don't know anything has changed.
3. You travel back to the past, make a change and... everything disappears. 😬 <Oops!
In the case of 1, you've proven there are distinct time threads. You have effectively left yours, altered it's past, but your personal memory of the original past remains. Therefore, you must have left one thread and jumped to another.

In case 2, you remain tied to your Timeline, and when you change your past, so does your memories of your past change with it. You would therefore, have your attempt to change the past as one of your memories, and come to believe you couldn't change the past, since all you memories remain consistent with the current version of your past.

In case 3: ...
I'll leave that there.

-Will
 
We will never have a time machine as a construct—but perhaps as a result of cosmological defects:

It would be an even harder moonshot than the Hail Mary story coming to theaters.

Two strings that whip past each other at least twice would allow a spacecraft to do a brute force approach…only such massive amounts of mass/energy would do…

…or so one would think:

I really want to believe this…but…I can’t help thinking this will wind up in Retraction Watch before I get done typing this.

The Walls of Jericho…Superman “singing” Darkseid to death. It at least sounds cosmic. At least for Coast-to-Coast fans:

Who needs a sword to cut into other realities, if you can carry a tune?

Cue Kolchak whistle.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top