The name means almost everything… but not the registry?!

[Mres_was_framed!]

Edmund Fitzgerald

I'm sure you meant to honor the crew and their ship (and the song), but I'm confident that Starfleet would not name a vessel after one of the most famous shipwrecks in history.

My thinking on the registries:

At first only Kirk's crew has done enough to earn keeping the same number with the letter. At that point, other ships like Excalibur, Lexington, Intrepid, and so on, are famous but not considered to be of status to keep their numbers.

The Star Trek Encylcopedia and some onscreen charts indicate another Excelsior with another number, NCC-27445. It has another captain by the TNG-era, but since Chakotay indicates that Captain Sulu helped him get into the Academy, I think we can assume that when NCC-2000 was retired, Hikaru Sulu and his crew got a new ship of the same class, but with some upgrades, but that new ship had a new number, since at that time, nobody had achieved anything like what Kirk had achieved. A lot of other ship names get re-used in this same way with new numbers for a long time.

I don't consider Star Trek made after 2009 to be canon for me, but I would consider Voyager to have done enough against enough adversity, and gained enough fame for her captain, that I could entertain the idea that NCC-74656 is a number that could continue to be re-used. Notably, Intrepid, the first ship of Voyager's class, has a number with no letter suffix, even though there have been several ships with the name Intrepid in Starfleet.

Regarding NCC-1305-E, I think we need to consider it an error for one simple reason: This would mean that, at some point, some crew of a ship called Yamato did something on the level of what Kirk achieved, and did it long enough ago that there have already been 6 ships with that name, when there have only been 5 ships named Enterprise. It might also indcate that the letter suffixes were in use before the number was given to If that had happened, then we should be seeing a show about that ship. So the regular number of NCC-71807 would make the most sense. (Although NCC-71806 would make sense, too, NCC-24383 must be another error, giving the registry of an older ship that was also called Yamato.)

 

[Forbin]

I'm sure you meant to honor the crew and their ship (and the song), but I'm confident that Starfleet would not name a vessel after one of the most famous shipwrecks in history.

Oh, you're confident, are you?

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Oh, you're confident, are you?

Admittedly, that confidence in only my opinion, but there is no official Starship called Titanic either

 

[B.J.]

Admittedly, that confidence in only my opinion, but there is no official Starship called Titanic either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Titanic

 

[Forbin]

Admittedly, that confidence in only my opinion, but there is no official Starship called Titanic either

I see no reason why Starfleet wouldn't have named a ship after the 20th century president and chairman of Notherwestern Mutual!

 

[DSG2k]

Regarding NCC-1305-E, I think we need to consider it an error for one simple reason: This would mean that, at some point, some crew of a ship called Yamato did something on the level of what Kirk achieved, and did it long enough ago that there have already been 6 ships with that name, when there have only been 5 ships named Enterprise. It might also indcate that the letter suffixes were in use before the number was given to If that had happened, then we should be seeing a show about that ship. So the regular number of NCC-71807 would make the most sense. (Although NCC-71806 would make sense, too, NCC-24383 must be another error, giving the registry of an older ship that was also called Yamato.)

My headcanon is that 1305-E and 7180x are both valid. Starships can get a regular registry plus an honorific / 'special dispensation' one, e.g. Defiant 74205 (again).

Thus, in my head, the Enterprise-D has a registry NCC-70701 or somesuch, but literally no one uses that because it's the frakking Enterprise. The Yamato has a fanbase but nothing like the Enterprise so most readouts and everything have 7180x, though some spot on the hull Riker could see had 1305-E.

(I kid about the fanbase thing, but insofar as the ship has a registry it is 7180x. The 1305-E is, like Defiant 75633 painted 74205 again, just special dispensation.)

 

[Dukhat]

The Star Trek Encyclopedia and some onscreen charts indicate another Excelsior with another number, NCC-27445. It has another captain by the TNG-era, but since Chakotay indicates that Captain Sulu helped him get into the Academy, I think we can assume that when NCC-2000 was retired, Hikaru Sulu and his crew got a new ship of the same class, but with some upgrades, but that new ship had a new number, since at that time, nobody had achieved anything like what Kirk had achieved. A lot of other ship names get re-used in this same way with new numbers for a long time.

Chakotay doesn't specifically state that it was Hikaru Sulu, although that's the implication we're supposed to take from that statement. However, it's also never stated that Sulu was still in command of a ship by the time he helped Chakotay. He could easily have been retired by that time but was still referred to as a captain.

As for the Excelsior(s), the NCC-2000 was apparently decommissioned in 2320 according to a plaque that couldn't be read on screen and is of dubious canonicity, but we'll go with it for now. So the NCC-27445 Excelsior could only have been commissioned after that date. If Chakotay entered the Academy in 2344, then the NCC-27445 would have been at least 20 years old by that point. I'm not sure why Sulu would still have been in command of that ship, if he was ever in command of it at all.

Regarding NCC-1305-E, I think we need to consider it an error for one simple reason: This would mean that, at some point, some crew of a ship called Yamato did something on the level of what Kirk achieved, and did it long enough ago that there have already been 6 ships with that name, when there have only been 5 ships named Enterprise. It might also indcate that the letter suffixes were in use before the number was given to If that had happened, then we should be seeing a show about that ship. So the regular number of NCC-71807 would make the most sense. (Although NCC-71806 would make sense, too, NCC-24383 must be another error, giving the registry of an older ship that was also called Yamato.)

I've never understood why 1305-E couldn't have worked just fine for the Yamato. It's quite obvious that Starfleet is completely arbitrary in terms of when/how/why they attach suffixes to registries and when they don't.

 

[Ithekro]

So it could have been Captain Demora Sulu running the USS Excelsior II shortly after it entered service.

 

[Dukhat]

So it could have been Captain Demora Sulu running the USS Excelsior II shortly after it entered service.

The Captain Sulu referred to in VOY was a he.

Also:

Excelsior #1: NCC-0220
Excelsior #2: NCC-1729
Excelsior #3: NX/NCC-2000
Excelsior #4: NCC-27445
Excelsior #5: NCC-42037

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

I see no reason why Starfleet wouldn't have named a ship after the 20th century president and chairman of Notherwestern Mutual!

Ok. Point taken on that. Then I expect Starfleet also needs an James R. Barker, James M. Schoonmaker, etc.

As for the Excelsior(s), the NCC-2000 was apparently decommissioned in 2320 according to a plaque that couldn't be read on screen and is of dubious canonicity, but we'll go with it for now.

Interesting where did that info come from.

I noticed a typo in my prior post. It should have read,

"It might also indcate that the letter suffixes were in use before the number was given to [NCC-1701-A.] If that had happened, then we should be seeing a show about that ship." Bracketed parts added.

In other words, I was taking the position that the letter suffix was probably supposed to be extraordinary at the time of Star Trek 4, but became less so in later years. So Enterprise is, as first, the only ship name that is considered by Starfleet to keep its number and add a suffix, but that that really only changes in post-2009 material. By that logic, 1305-E is more likely to be the error than 71807.

 

[CaptChris42]

Ok. Point taken on that. Then I expect Starfleet also needs an James R. Barker, James M. Schoonmaker, etc.


Interesting where did that info come from.

I noticed a typo in my prior post. It should have read,

"It might also indcate that the letter suffixes were in use before the number was given to [NCC-1701-A.] If that had happened, then we should be seeing a show about that ship." Bracketed parts added.

In other words, I was taking the position that the letter suffix was probably supposed to be extraordinary at the time of Star Trek 4, but became less so in later years. So Enterprise is, as first, the only ship name that is considered by Starfleet to keep its number and add a suffix, but that that really only changes in post-2009 material. By that logic, 1305-E is more likely to be the error than 71807.

I believe that info came from some behind the scenes posts relating to Picard Season 3?

Such is my recollection, anyway. Plus ties in to the Starfleet Museum scenes.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Chakotay doesn't specifically state that it was Hikaru Sulu, although that's the implication we're supposed to take from that statement.

So it could have been Captain Demora Sulu running the USS Excelsior II shortly after it entered service.

A 2005 short story did have this be the case. However...

The Captain Sulu referred to in VOY was a he.

Which is likely why Jeri Taylor originally intended Captain Sulu to be Hikaru's grandson Hiromi, per Pathways (though the canonicity of this is dubious as many other datapoints from the book have been contradicted.

 

[Dukhat]

Which is likely why Jeri Taylor originally intended Captain Sulu to be Hikaru's grandson Hiromi, per Pathways (though the canonicity of this is dubious as many other datapoints from the book have been contradicted.

Yes, I remember that reference from the book. And this particular Captain Sulu was commanding a ship on Cardassian border patrol duty, so I doubt that it would have been Hikaru, who was probably retired at that point. And even if he wasn’t, I doubt he’d be doing mundane assignments like that.