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"The Muppets" is dead. What now for the Muppets?

Gaith

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As its official TV&M thread has failed to acknowledge, ABC's The Muppets has been canceled. This after its production was itself an implicit cancellation of the relaunched big-screen franchise. So: what now? (But, please: none of Fozzie's ideas, because they really stink.)

Myself, as a big fan of Muppet Treasure Island (less so Christmas Carol, because I'm pretty meh on the whole Yule thing), I'd like to see the gang adapt and perform in more established stories. A Muppets-powered Jason and the Argonauts or labors of Hercules tale, maybe? A Muppet Robin Hood or King Arthur? Muppet A Princess of Mars, starring Ms. Piggy as Mme Thoris? ... That last one might be a tough sell. :p

Of course, what with Netflix cozying up to Disney, the possibility for streaming-exclusive one-off productions/specials/TV movies are endless. (And FCC/MPAA censorship-free!) Speaking of which: when will Brian Henson's R-rated puppet detective movie finally get made? All you suits looking for the next Deadpool, there ya go!!
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I'm the opposite. I really don't enjoy The Muppets playing parts in existing stories. I prefer it when they are themselves (or a close fit) ...but maybe that's just me.

I'm not happy to see them fail again. But they'll be back one way or another.
 
The moral of the TV show is they need someone to step forward who really gets them. Close but no cigar isn't good enough.
That's exactly how I feel. I tried to give this show a chance, I really did, but aside from the Swedish Chef silly jam down at the water hole, I just couldn't get into the show. I wish Brian Henson was more involved with the Muppets these days. He's the only beyond his father and the original puppeteers who seems to really gets the Muppets.
 
For me, the real drop in quality in Muppet productions came when Jerry Juhl, the head writer for the original show and most of the pre-2000 movies, passed away. He was partnered with Henson going back to the beginning with Sam and Friends, and I think he was as crucial a voice to the Muppets as Henson and Oz were, and he helped maintain a lot of the integrity of the Muppets after Henson died. I feel that the Muppet productions post-2000 have rarely been up to the same standard.
 
Brian Henson is really more of a technician. He understands the Muppets intellectually but can't really continue doing it the way his dad did.
 
I'm one of the 4 people on the planet who actually really enjoyed Muppets: Most Wanted. I thought it was great silly fun. I just don't feel like the Muppets show embraced their silly anarchic side.
 
I just don't feel like the Muppets show embraced their silly anarchic side.

I think it was Jim Henson who once said that if the Muppets were a basketball game, the final score would always be Frog 98, Chaos 97, and that's what was lacking in the television show. I actually thought the last four or five episodes before it went on hiatus for retooling were pretty good, but the post-hiatus episodes really, really lost me right from the start. But between the show flopping and Muppets Most Wanted under-performing pretty badly, I imagine that we'll see the franchise take a break for a while.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. The Muppets are a tough nut to crack; they're basically the poster child for "Thing that's kind of cool but people won't go out of their way to care."
 
I really enjoyed both of The Muppets and Muppets Most Wanted, but the show was only OK. I watched the show from start to finish, and I did enjoy it, but think the biggest problem was that it felt more like a decent workplace sitcom than a Muppet show.
I agree with you guys that they really need to find someone who is really able to recapture the style that Jim Henson had, which nobody has really been able to do so far. I thought Muppets Treasure Island, Muppets from Space, and the last two movies came pretty close, but it still wasn't at the same level as Henson's stuff.
I've loved the Muppets my whole life, so I don't want to see them go away, but I do think they need to take a good look at what has and hasn't worked in the past, and focus just on what worked.
 
I've loved the Muppets my whole life, so I don't want to see them go away, but I do think they need to take a good look at what has and hasn't worked in the past, and focus just on what worked.

To some certain extent I agree, but it isn't 1978 anymore. I think the core problem with the show was that both angles at it tried to fit in celebrity guests to the detriment of the plot. When the original Muppet Show was on the air, Johnny Carson was unopposed and prime time was filled with these Ed Sullivan-style programs like the Smothers Brothers. Now the Tonight Show has three competitors (four if you count The Daily Show) and still more programming in the late night slot. Celebrity appearances on this show were hit and miss, and while Key & Peele were good, quite a few guests felt as irrelevant as the Muppets themselves. I get that any Muppets project requires some sort of conceit in order to have all of them in the same place, but I think going back to the variety show / talk show well is trying to get blood from a stone at this point.
 
Brian Henson is really more of a technician. He understands the Muppets intellectually but can't really continue doing it the way his dad did.
He directed both The Muppet Christmas Carol and Muppet Treasure Island, and while I'm not a big fan of the latter (although it's been years since I've seen it), I love the former and often feel like it's the only post-Jim Henson production to truly capture the magic of the Muppets.
 
I'm one of the 4 people on the planet who actually really enjoyed Muppets: Most Wanted. I thought it was great silly fun. I just don't feel like the Muppets show embraced their silly anarchic side.

I must be #2 of the 4, then, since I liked Muppets Most Wanted better than the previous film. The Muppets (the film) was trying too hard to sell the idea of the Muppets to a new audience, and it was too steeped in nostalgia and affection for the Muppets to remember that they had an edgier side. It was so sentimental toward Kermit that it reduced him to a complete sad sack who did nothing except give up at the slightest setback over and over again. MMW rehabilitated Kermit by giving him his edge back, by remembering that he led the Muppets by being tough as well as nice, and demonstrating how completely they fell apart without Kermit there to yell at them and keep them focused.



I watched the show from start to finish, and I did enjoy it, but think the biggest problem was that it felt more like a decent workplace sitcom than a Muppet show.

Whereas my problem was that it felt more like a bad workplace sitcom than a Muppet show. It wasn't just that they were completely out of character and seemed to be acting out generic sitcom scripts about totally different, far more mean-spirited characters -- it was that practically nothing they said or did made me laugh.


I agree with you guys that they really need to find someone who is really able to recapture the style that Jim Henson had, which nobody has really been able to do so far. I thought Muppets Treasure Island, Muppets from Space, and the last two movies came pretty close, but it still wasn't at the same level as Henson's stuff.
I've loved the Muppets my whole life, so I don't want to see them go away, but I do think they need to take a good look at what has and hasn't worked in the past, and focus just on what worked.

The fundamental paradox there, though, is that Henson did all the things he did because he was an innovator. Instead of trying to emulate the past, he pushed the medium forward in new and experimental directions. He totally transformed the art of puppetry on television by making the frame itself the proscenium and giving the characters freedom to interact with the whole world. He pioneered new technologies in puppetry, video effects, and eventually creature effects and animatronics, and he was experimenting with computer animation toward the end of his life. He pushed the humor of the Muppets in a subversive and adult direction while also embracing their appeal to children and their value as an educational tool. He branched out into innovative fantasy films like The Dark Crystal and Labyrinth and shows like The Storyteller and Dinosaurs. He was one of the most forward-looking, pioneering creators in the industry.

So while it may be possible to imitate what he did in the past, it will never be possible to capture the spirit of Henson's work as long as one is looking backward and trying to emulate something that's already been done. The only real way to capture his spirit is to create something that nobody's ever seen before. Who knows if Henson himself would still be doing Muppet movies if he were alive? Hell, he probably would've beaten Pixar to their niche in the creative landscape. Or Weta. Or both.
 
I read a biography on Henson and agree with what you say. He always wanted to evolve beyond the Muppets and that factored into why he sold to Disney in the first place. The Muppets were kind of a stifling obligation after a while. Nothing else Jim Henson did resonated at the level The Muppets did, even Fraggle Rock.
 
I'm not really familiar with the Muppets, but I really liked both modern movies and the tv series (including the first batch). I think Most Wanted was a better movie than the first one because it starred the Muppets instead of a new human and a new muppet.
 
It sucks if people enjoyed this show but I doubt the IP will lay dormant for long. I would like to see them adapt No Country for Old Muppets.
 
I kind of understand what they were trying to do with the show, but it just didn't work for me. Miss Piggy wasn't a great talk show host, for one thing, so the comedy behind that kind of fell apart. My idea would be this: Make an actual Muppet Talk show where Kermit is host. You can have as many muppet cameos as you'd like doing skits, but also have ordinary guests being asked questions by Kermit. A talk show was a natural evolution from the variety hour, especially when you consider how much Johnny Carson actually did in moving the medium forward. How many people would watch that?

Now, that said, maybe the movies is the best place for them. They still have a lot of themes to explore that couldn't really be done via a TV show. I'm still waiting for that Western.
 
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