The Movie Kirk - A Bit Depressing

[DeepSpaceYorks]

I watched Generations at the weekend and I was left feeling a bit depressed about the road they had taken Kirk down in the movies. He is a disappointed, unhappy man at the end of the day. Lonely & frustrated; hiding his sadness behind a bluff exterior. I don't think was even a revisionist stance in Generations either, this character development had been ongoing since TMP. I think it's a brave and bold move on the part of the various filmmakers but it left me melancholy for Kirk. I have no question here, these thoughts had just been hanging around in my brain and I needed to get them out.

 

[FormerLurker]

Kirk was a gung-ho, take-charge character and man of action. An aging Kirk, no longer able to take charge with quite the gung-ho as he used to, is a Kirk that flits between being the best he can at what he is able, and chafing at what is now beyond him. There's pretty much no way an older Kirk can be a happy man, as age has prevented him from accomplishing his goals.

This is my head-canon for why he free-climbed El Capitan, and for why, in the deleted scenes of GEN, he was parachuting from space. He was becoming reckless in an attempt to reclaim his former gung-ho.

 

[Desert Kris]

It's a bit tiresome that the writers kept him circling the same issue over and over again, rather than explore new possibilites. If Kirk was smart, he would have just stayed with the Enterprise until he died in action. Just 'cause he gets older doesn't mean he can't keep trying to keep himself in the game. With the issues of promotion, he should have been smart and made a case for greater authority, with a starship under his command as a resource under his authority. I know that there's the argument that the writers think they need the character's journey to conform to the story they want to tell, but I think writers could try harder. We saw plenty of occasions where another authority figure was trying to usurp his command of the Enterprise during critical moments, and that heightened the tension of some episodes. But the I think a good writing would have shown new ways that the character would struggle. Generations backpedalled into storytelling territory that had already been covered (although TUC makes it difficult with it's signing off ending).

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

One of the things I wish Bennett/Meyer/Nimoy had done with Kirk post-TMP was to have him actually use his flag rank. Nimoy preferred Kirk as captain of the Enterprise, but there's no reason why Kirk could not have commanded the ship, as well as a small group of Starfleet vessels commanded by captains familiar to us (Terrell, Sinclair, Sulu), in the films. I'm not sure how that would have affected the plots of the films themselves, but it would have been interesting to see.

 

[Spot261]

What on earth could be depressing about a fat middle aged man desperately trying to still be twenty years younger, taking risks with his and other's safety, taking up sports he can't possibly manage to do, flirting and sleeping with women half his age, burning the engine out of a worn out old vehicle which used to be top of the line, ruining younger men's careers to prove he can still cut it, searching for a magical elixir of youth and constantly picking fights with other middle aged men?

 

[DamarsKanar]

Yeah there is definitely a melancholy about Kirk's trajectory through the films. Something sad about his character's arc, sure! But something nostalgic, pensive and affecting too. I like it. Though Generations...ugh. I am never sure how to fit that into my head as a fitting, beautiful end for Kirk.

 

[Vger23]

Movie Kirk and Spock are real characters with interesting arcs, flaws, tragedies, and triumphs.

It's probably the best job the franchise did with portraying "realistic" characters.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Movie Kirk and Spock are real characters with interesting arcs, flaws, tragedies, and triumphs.

It's probably the best job the franchise did with portraying "realistic" characters.

I don't actually disagree and it's a bold move on the part of the filmmakers. I still find it a little depressing though.

 

[SPCTRE]

Yeah there is definitely a melancholy about Kirk's trajectory through the films. Something sad about his character's arc, sure! But something nostalgic, pensive and affecting too. I like it.

Same here.

 

[Kaelef]

It's a bit tiresome that the writers kept him circling the same issue over and over again, rather than explore new possibilites.

Agreed. I was acutely aware of how a major theme in every TOS movie had to do with how the characters were aging. Though it was a relevant issue, having it rehashed in every movie became a bit of a groan-inducing cliché.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Agreed. I was acutely aware of how a major theme in every TOS movie had to do with how the characters were aging. Though it was a relevant issue, having it rehashed in every movie became a bit of a groan-inducing cliché.

I was too young at the time of the TOS movies to view them as anything but super duper sci-fi action films, it's only in later life i see the melancholy and feet of clay syndrome. By the time of Generations I was aware but at the time couldn't summon up the enthusiasm to care all that much.

 

[DamarsKanar]

Well, I love it - but I think you could probably say that they played their hand a little too soon with this idea, thereby necessitating drawing it out over several films. Maybe it would have made more sense to have this emerge as a major theme in the final two-three movies rather than in basically every one. But I guess they weren't so aware of how long the franchise would last.

 

[Timewalker]

ruining younger men's careers to prove he can still cut it

He didn't order them to accompany him. He made a point of saying that he and McCoy were the only ones who had to return to Genesis, and the others were under no obligation.

They chose for themselves to go along.

 

[Paradise City]

I think movie Kirk (at least from TMP to VI) is a very, very rewarding rendition of what Kirk would be like as he advances in years. People want TOS in movie Kirk but that's a mistake. I don't want TOS Kirk in Movie Kirk.

Kirk is an unhappy and frustrated admiral, wannabe captain but as a man he grows, he finds that some things in life are more important than the big chair, he deepens his rich friendship with Spock with his rescue which exacts a profound and terrible toll on him that moves us all (none of this skip onto another episode he's fine n' dandy business) and that great triumvirate of Kirk, McCoy and Spock are also tested, crowning a legendary friendship. The big chair takes a back seat with all these things that really matter in life.

In VI he struggles badly to overcome the death of his son and all that baggage he has with the Klingons, he fights through that pathological quagmire and at the end he seems at peace with himself. signing off in poignant style bringing closure to a great career.

Generations -- this is Berman's show. He writes well enough for his own TNG squad but Kirk bobs about like a loose end in that film with the flimsy Guardian of Foreveresque plot device waiting to be crammed into his "I'll die alone" prophecy he made from V.

So Generatons didn't really satisfy me with Kirk -- but the rest of the films Kirk enjoys some great character development and with plenty of sublime acting from Shatner, dodgy fight scenes notwithstanding.

 

[Spot261]

He didn't order them to accompany him. He made a point of saying that he and McCoy were the only ones who had to return to Genesis, and the others were under no obligation.

They chose for themselves to go along.

I was thinking of Decker.....

 

[Vger23]

I think movie Kirk (at least from TMP to VI) is a very, very rewarding rendition of what Kirk would be like as he advances in years. People want TOS in movie Kirk but that's a mistake. I don't want TOS Kirk in Movie Kirk.

Kirk is an unhappy and frustrated admiral, wannabe captain but as a man he grows, he finds that some things in life are more important than the big chair, he deepens his rich friendship with Spock with his rescue which exacts a profound and terrible toll on him that moves us all (none of this skip onto another episode he's fine n' dandy business) and that great triumvirate of Kirk, McCoy and Spock are also tested, crowning a legendary friendship. The big chair takes a back seat with all these things that really matter in life.

In VI he struggles badly to overcome the death of his son and all that baggage he has with the Klingons, he fights through that pathological quagmire and at the end he seems at peace with himself. signing off in poignant style bringing closure to a great career.

Generations -- this is Berman's show. He writes well enough for his own TNG squad but Kirk bobs about like a loose end in that film with the flimsy Guardian of Foreveresque plot device waiting to be crammed into his "I'll die alone" prophecy he made from V.

So Generatons didn't really satisfy me with Kirk -- but the rest of the films Kirk enjoys some great character development and with plenty of sublime acting from Shatner, dodgy fight scenes notwithstanding.

Nice post. Totally agree

 

[Vger23]

I was thinking of Decker.....

He didn't ruin Decker's career. And, if Noguiera thought Decker was better for the mission, he would have told Kirk to shit in his hat. The stakes were far too high for any screwing around. You don't send an untried Captain out into a situation like that.

 

[Nyotarules]

He didn't ruin Decker's career. And, if Noguiera thought Decker was better for the mission, he would have told Kirk to shit in his hat. The stakes were far too high for any screwing around. You don't send an untried Captain out into a situation like that.

And yet one of Kirk's command decisions nearly below up the ship due to unintentional ignorance. I think the mission would have been succesful under Decker, what did Kirk contribute apart from having Chapel demoted and McCoy brought in?

 

[Vger23]

And yet one of Kirk's command decisions nearly below up the ship due to unintentional ignorance. I think the mission would have been succesful under Decker, what did Kirk contribute apart from having Chapel demoted and McCoy brought in?

Decker's suggestions later in the movie were mostly either over-aggressive and incorrect and would have gotten the ship destroyed ("a maximum phaser strike directly at the beam") or horribly pussy-footed and would have resulted in absolutely no progress ("moving in at this time is an unwarranted gamble").

It's easy asy to judge Kirk for the bad that happened...it was a dangerous frigging mission. But there's no way Decker's approach would have been better. Kirk just barely got the Enterprise in position inside Vger in time. Decker would have hung around, even 30 minutes too long, and Earth would have been digitized. Also, Decker's animosity toward the Ilia Probe (that probe in another form KILLED Ilia!!) would have prevented him from finding the solution that Kirk found through forming a dialogue with it.

Honestly, Decker wouldn't have succeeded as Captain, but Kirk wouldn't have succeeded without Decker as his XO either. It's part of what makes TMP such a great movie.

Ultimately, one of the primary points of the entire movie is that the two men ultimately needed each other to complete the mission successfully.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Well said. Kirk and Decker needed each other, which McCoy seemed to realize before anyone else, which is why he called Kirk out when the two were chatting in the latter' quarters.