The more episodes I see of Voyager, the more I see Janeway as the most evil individual. Her moral compass is totally screwed up.
I'm inclined to agree with this. :P
That's silly. Diplomacy and war are often parallel efforts, the former working to get a favorable position for the military in the prelude to war and securing the terms of victory when war is over. Having diplomats is no more or less a sign of the willingness to coexist peacefully with other nations. The fact that the Dominion sought allies in their conquests does not make them a beneficent power, just one that is more aware of Realpolitik than, say, the Borg. Indeed, the eradication of a planetary population was well within its tool box as a means of destroying dissent.
I didn't say it made them a "beneficent power". Only that it is likely that the ambassadors are used to sway a world into joining the Dominion - a means that would spare them any type of war.
I've said, a few times already, that the Dominion is not a good regime. But I was arguing that the Dominion, from what was displayed, did not arbitrarily and for no reason wipe out species. Eve if you find their reasoning to be wrong, it doesn't change the fact. The Dominion clearly operates for two reasons, both of which connect. They want to bring order to the quadrants and they do it as a means to ensure that the solids can't hurt the changelings. Essentially, it's the hate that hate produced. And judging by how the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order tried to commit genocide to wipe out the "Changeling threat", looks like their "paranoia" isn't that off.
^ And the fate of the Cardassians shows how much the Dominion thinks about its "allies".
This applies even before the Jem'Hadar were sent to wipe out Cardassia. Damar was spot-on in his final speech.
The Dominion didn't arbitrarily try to wipe out the Cardassians out of mustache twirling villainy. They were in the middle of a war and their "allies" turned on them jeopardizing the war effort. That doesn't make what the Dominion did right, but that is not evidence that deep down inside this is how the Dominion treats its allies normally. They attacked the Cardassians for a
reason. And yes, the Dominion clearly has a zero tolerance policy (to absurd levels) on dissent.
But this counter-argument is largely missing the point. I've noticed that no one has really countered the other bad things the Federation engages in. The primary argument appears to be that the Dominion is worse than the UFP. Uh....ok? Considering they are depicted as the bad guys in the show, I see that this was a bit of an easy argument to win. There is an awkward double standard though and that is why I brought up the Dominion. Not as proof the Dominion is "beneficent". For example, the Federation enslaves holograms to mine their dilithium. They don't even acknowledge that the EMH is sentient, yet we see he clearly is. Trek, throughout all of its incarnations, shows us that A.I. has the potential to be sentient like any "organic". That they can love, fear death, and have wants and needs beyond their programming. So their forcing the holograms to mine seems at odds with their propaganda that they respect
all life, no matter what form it takes. Yet when the Dominion (assuming) enslaves a species, we (rightfully so) point out its evil. But when the Federation does it.....it's ok because.......we're told they're the good guys?
THAT is why I bring up the Dominion comparison. That is not my way of saying the Dominion is nicer.
The UFP, like all the others that people have presented in this topic, does have shades of evil if one examines them by their own moral standards.
On the issue of imperialism, not all imperialism is done through the barrel of a gun (phaser). There is such a thing as
cultural imperialism. Which the Federation
does engage in. It was pointed out that one of the requirements to join is no caste-based systems. I'm guessing that is from the DS9 episode? The Bajoran caste system was rather benign (if not pretty stupid and limiting for the populace). But Earth has had worst caste systems such as rich vs. poor or on the religious side the upper religious caste vs. Untouchables type. Conveniently, for the sake of the plot, a vedek kills a person showing why this is bad. But what if Bajor had it from the get go and it was normal to be born into a system like that? That people embrace it just like Klingons embrace violence? What right does the UFP have to tell them that, that aspect of their lives is inferior and if they wanted to join the UFP to get rid of it?
What about various worlds militaries? They all have to be "absorbed" into Starfleet. Uh....why? What if they have an utterly massive space fleet? They have to decommission all those ships and replace them with
Oberths and
New Orleans class ships? What if they ran it a different way and didn't want to run it in the way Starfleet ran their interstellar fleet? Oh and conveniently? Your new absorbed fleet? It gets its marching orders from
Earth.
Trek really makes it look like everyone in the UFP obeys Earth's standards. Or we're just expected to believe that the Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, Alpha Centurians, and every other alien race or colonists just
happens to have the same values and norms as humans? I know TNG showed that most aliens in the Trekverse come from one humanoid source but what a stroke of luck that they're all culturally the same too!
Look, I'll admit that my analysis operates from the little they show and a lot they don't show. That the shows were never about life in the Federation. That it is about a group of people exploring the stars and enlightening themselves in the midst of it. That we're just supposed to accept the premise that life in the Federation is awesome. Everyone gets along. No in-fighting. No clashing of cultures. It's "paradise" as Sisko calls Earth. Fine.
But I think examining it beyond just what we're spoon fed kind of shows there are a lot of brick walls on those notions. Makes it more interesting too.
That's part of why I love DS9. It kind of turned the whole perfect human, perfect paradise notion in its head.
